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Proposed EU ban on Potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate for members of the public


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#1 wayne

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 07:51 PM

Hi All,

 

I've recently been notified that the EU are proposing an outright ban on Potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate (amongst other non-pyro chemicals) to members of the public.  This is currently going through consultation throughout the EU member states.  See details of this attached.

 

The home office are conducting the consultation within the UK and I have already been in discussion to emphasise the devastating impact this would make to pyro experimentation.  They understand our concerns and would like to hear how other EU pyro experimenters are handling these proposals.  So, if you are outside the UK and experiment with pyrotechnics (and are concerned about losing the access to KCLO3/4), please can you get in touch and let me know how your local pyro clubs/authorities are handling these proposals.  Any solidarity we can get with this will be beneficial for all.

 

Hope to hear from someone out there in europe!

 

Kind regards,

 

Wayne.



#2 Rip Rap

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 06:52 AM

Wow - this could kill amateur pyro experimentation totally!

Glad that the Home Office understand the concerns - IF that makes any difference where Europe wide legislation is concerned!??

Good luck Wayne.


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#3 Arthur Brown

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 07:26 AM

Most EU webshops already list ClO3/4 as "Professional use only" requiring company ID for purchases. What change will this make? How will it distinguish professional firework companies (Zink etc) and SOLAS flare makers from hobbyist and terrorist users.

 

How will Brexit and these EU regs collide?


http://www.movember.com/uk/home/

Keep mannequins and watermelons away from fireworks..they always get hurt..

#4 wayne

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 08:11 PM

Professional use will still continue without any requirement for licencing (as before).  This is only for "public" use.



#5 David G

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 10:49 PM

Devastating effect?

Is the British experimenter actually allowed to do anything in this nanny state. Ridiculous considering this is a supposed democracy.



#6 David G

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 04:00 PM

Can anyone in authority answer this: How does banning the public from acquiring ie: potassium perchlorate,stop a criminal or terrorist from acquiring it?
After all,do the authorities really believe that the terrorists and criminals purchase such products
Legitimately? If so,they are pretty stupid themselves.
Anyone remember the IRA bomb in Manchester? I do. The IRA did not purchase the Ammonium Nitrate for that,they stole it. If I were going to commit an act of violence on the public,I wouldn't buy the components of an explosive(captured on CCTV) then make and detonate it.
Surely the authorities should use a modicum of common sense here but I suppose that is too much to ask. Those that this legislation is meant to target will still steal what they need. I remember the IRA couldn't get certain munitions in the '70s so they raided the army barracks I was stationed at
and cleaned out our armoury. So the legislation re:guns etc that were in force then did no good whatsoever. It is bigotry and hatred that need to be targeted and educated out of existence.

Edited by David G, 31 August 2018 - 04:04 PM.


#7 Rob.L.

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:43 PM

Everybody knows that chlorate/perchlorate cells can be made easily and once the set up is fine-tuned the clandestine manufacture of perchlorates for terrorist purposes will thrive unabated. This is simple inorganic chemistry, nothing more.

 

That said the issue here is EU legislation and not our own.

 

I am going to make contact with as many people as possible via the science madness forum as that is where the bulk of the worlds amateur chemists and pyros reside or frequent. On there is the main contingent of people who need to be reached out to. I know there are a few idiots as well but that is people I'm afraid.

 

Any chemical experimenter of any descripton could be effected by this and despite a period away from activity here to keep my sanity I intend to try and get support from any angle possible. If anyone has contacts anywhere then now is the time to make them. Or back into the shadows we all go.



#8 Arthur Brown

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 08:48 AM

Having read the two attached EU documents, is there anything that this will do apart from end the UK EPP licence for precursors? Other EU countries have banned these precursors for the general public for several years.

 

I do note that the EU wants to impose a duty on e-commerce vendors to comply with the regulations, I'm not sure how that will affect the Chinese sellers who just send anything by ChinaPost.

 

Near me several things that probably should be within REACH seem to arrive from "old borders" India with all the cooking pots and pans.

 

Will the EU regulation be enacted and enforced in post brexit UK?


Edited by Arthur Brown, 01 September 2018 - 08:50 AM.

http://www.movember.com/uk/home/

Keep mannequins and watermelons away from fireworks..they always get hurt..

#9 David G

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Posted 01 September 2018 - 09:11 PM

Probably if it comes into force whilst we(the UK) have to comply with EU regulations.

#10 MattyJ

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 09:42 PM

Oh dear this would totally destroy the hobby!

Sorry i've been out of the loop for a while with this hobby, but don't want to loose the ability to experiment if I ever get time to do so!
How is everyone? Are we having a meet up etc?

Thanks

Matt

#11 David G

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Posted 17 September 2018 - 11:01 PM

Wayne,as you are FULLY AWARE, we are not businesses nor professionals in the main here,just amateurs.
As for the "professionals" are they not where the terrorists steal their supplies from?

This is a shitload of trouble for a small number of people and nobody cares or indeed helps.

The EU and UK Laws are asinine and should be replaced by common sense. This,however,will never happen
because the sheeple are too busy bleating.

#12 Tinderbox

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 07:53 PM

I am very seriously looking into taking my business and life over to the USA where I can pursue my peaceful hobby of making pretty lights in the sky legally and even attend competitions and join active clubs. This country is dead to me.



#13 samboradford

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:42 AM

Hi Wayne, just wondering if there is any progress.

 

One of the issues is the concept of Potassium Perchlorate, Fine Aluminium and Barium Nitrate being "lumped" in with all other precursors.  All the community would realistically need is a special allocation of exemption for these three items.  That may be a more straightforward conversation to hold ?



#14 BlackCat

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 06:08 PM

Like Arthur, I have been aware that continental webshops have added a statement to their websites regarding compliance with the EU directives on potassium perchlorate and potassium chlorate, however, I have not seen the same attached to ammonium perchlorate. I was also under the impression that the introduction of the EPPP was instead of UK compliance with these directives.

 

As far as how other countries are coping, I'm sure we all know that the Maltese have a very long tradition of celebrating saint's days with fireworks and that a good pro[portion of those set off are made by amateurs in firework clubs. I don't have any contacts over there but, somebody in the society might and, if so, it could be a good place to get a view. Mind you, I guess that any opt-out would require the countries government to get on side and negotiate on behalf of the interested parties. Call me cynical if you like but I can't see any of the UK parties wanting to do the right thing by us!



#15 Rip Rap

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Posted 10 December 2018 - 12:32 PM

Does anyone know of any updates about this?


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