21 replies to this topic

[Flashy]

I'm not sure this is in the right place, so feel free to move it to a more appropriate place.

This morning I've been destroying a washing machine that was laying around in the shed. I've removed the motor in the hope of using in my ball mill as the motor i'm using now is somewhat underpowred for the task. I've included a picture in the hope that someone has information on wiring it up. It has two windings, a 14000rmp, and a 480rpm. The blue and orange wires go to the smaller winding, i have tried connecting this to the mains, it spins for a moment then blows all the fuses in the extension lead, the motor plug and the protective device. As far as i can tell it is using a massive amount of power to start the motor therefore a capacitor should be used when starting the motor. The problem is a can't find one wired to the original loom. If anyone has any information on wiring this thing it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave



Does anyone know what the two white wires are for that most connect to the shaft of the motor somehow, could this be a centrifugal capacitor device that dissingages when the motor is up to speed.

Edited by Flashy, 05 June 2004 - 01:30 PM.

[zanes]

Sounds liks you have got a motor that is a 'stepping' motor. This means it has spme kind of PCB controlling is speed, current usage etc.

If it blows all fuses it sounds like a dodgy winding or bush/armature is to blame.

I would imagine that you would be better off with a simple, 'two in' motor.

Sorry!! had some more ideas!!!. Does the washing machine contain a transformer? Have you wired the plug correctly? Did you see a small capcitor wired accross two terminals on the motor?

Yet more ideas!!! were several of the wires wired to a PCB? If so junk it.
Looking at that picture the device in the foreground may be a starter motor, controlled by a PCB. Why it would have one I have no idea.

All in all, its likely that you have got a computer controlled motor. Might be worth paying a visit to your local scrappy to see if they have anything simpler

Edited by zanes, 05 June 2004 - 02:40 PM.

[pritch]

I have a stepping motor in my cpu fan, which I removed to play about with. I just ignore the control wire and use positive an negative as normal. If you got desperate and your motor wasnt working then maybe consider removing any control board thats built into the motor. An electric motor is a very simple thing. It should be easy to remove a circuit board leaving nothing but the negative wire and the positive, if you can get to it. If you cant remove it then maybe just bypass it. A current will always take the easiest route so if you put a wire from the start of each wire going in, and at the end of the same wire on the other end, then it will ignore the chipset.

[Flashy]

Ok, the washing machine has no transformer, it does have a control board, but its mostly just timer control stuff. It has one 8W 5K6 resistor (could be a control method?) on the board but appart from that nothing stands out. The plug is wired correctly. The secondary winding of the motor has four wires from it, which is why i'm using the smaller winding. The orange and blue wires go directly to the brushes, no control board on the motor. I believe its an induction motor, which should have capacitor start which cuts out once it is spinning. Just done a little more testing on the motor. it has 8 wires in total, 2 white, 1 brown, 2 black, 1 blue, 1 orange and a grey. The two blacks read 0 Ohms on my meter, so does the gray to brown. The two whites and the orange and blue also read 0 Ohms. I'm guessing therefore that each of these pairs is a seperate winding on the motor. I'm glad no body i work with is reading this, I'd get lynched. I'm an aircraft electrician by trade, but they never taught us how to build washing machines.

Edited by Flashy, 05 June 2004 - 03:19 PM.

[pritch]

This may not work. Maybe though you could attach a small light bulb or bell to a battery and 2 bits of wire. Try making a full circuit by touching the wires on the motor. When the bulb lights up you will probally have your wires that you need to put a current through. The red and blue wires on the outside look pretty suspect to me

[Flashy]

well all the pairs that i listed above would allow a light bulb to light and that is my problem, I've just run out of 13A fuses so i'll have to go get some more before i can try any more combinations. I'm going to give the two blacks a go, and then i'm going to try the brown and the grey. I had a very dizzy moment this morning where i thought i'll try and use a car battery to save fuses. Of course without a sinusodial waveform it was completly useless. I should have taken the tumble dryer apart instead of the washing machine, At least they only have one set of windings.

[zanes]

The secondary winding of the motor has four wires from it, which is why i'm using the smaller winding. The orange and blue wires go directly to the brushes, no control board on the motor.

definitely a stepper. Connect power to the orange and blue and see what happens. That should work.

[Flashy]

When i connect power to the blue and orange it spins then blows the fuse nad trips the rcd. Ihave done a daft paint drawing of the motor. I know this motor isn't a duff because the washing machine was working before i took it apart. From what i can gather the motor is just pulling to much current from the supply. Can't remember if armature should be rotor on the diagram.



Correction*** Grey and orange should be labelled grey and brown

Edited by Flashy, 05 June 2004 - 03:50 PM.

[zanes]

try connecting 3 wires to + and 3 to - might work

have you run out of fuses yet?

[Flashy]

yeha i've just run out of fuses, started stealing them from other things. Just tried connecting black and grey to positive and black and brown to negative. The wires jumped a bit then the fuse blew. Looks like i might have to get myself another motor. I have had a few thoughts about a water powred ball mill. Nice and safe, no risk of sparks, and were not on a water meter so mains water supply is an ideal supply.

[alany]

That's a universal motor, I wouldn't recommend it for ball mill use as its open construction and use of brushes is a big safety problem.

Applying power to the armature only will likely just pull huge amounts of current and potentionally spin the motor up to distruction using any residual magnetism in the stator poles. An armature winding typically has very little reactance. The motor is likely designed to run with the stator in series with the armature, which is the conventional practice for a universal motor.

[Flashy]

If this is a universal motor, that should mean that it would run on DC. I have just tried running the motor on my power supply and after 5V it shorts and the current trip comes in. I'm guessing then that this motor is completly useless and i might as well start using it as a paper weight. Just out of interest does anybody know what the two white wires are for?

[alany]

It is hard to tell without a closer look, might be some kind of synchronous motor, but I doubt it. Could be a hall sensor for speed regulation?

It isn't suprising a 5V bench supply just trips out trying to run it.

Try picking the two wires to the stator with the largest DC resistance and wiring them in series with the brushes, then run it off the mains in series with a 100 W bulb to stop it blowing fuses.

[Flashy]

Very good suggestion, i'll try that tomorrow when i can get some more fuses. Its not a 5V power supply by the way, its a 30V but the current limiter kicks in at 5 Volts when applied to the motor. I suppose its not surprising really this motor obviously uses more power than my supply can give. Thanks for the suggestion again, i'll be sure to try that. It might not be a waste of a washing machine after all.

Edited by Flashy, 05 June 2004 - 07:38 PM.