256 replies to this topic

[mcfluffin]

Thanks for the clarifications. I suppose I could just try making some willow charcoal in a BBQ as it is readily availible where I live. Besides...I suppose that it couldn't hurt since it wouldn't cost me anything.

[Ritual33]

Well I just got back from my aunts after staying the night, I decided to go up to her house for a 'visit' *ahem* as I havn't seen her in a while, well anyways I got my uncle to help me out with making some charcoal (I stink of fire now, really bad)... they live up on the moors in Rochdale, if anybody knows the area its right at the top of ?!?! road, a big house all on its own. I used an empty (shame), round Terry's chocolate orange tin which I stole from my kitchen, some heavy mesh, coal and firewood, oh and some bricks I did this last night (Wednesday 12 October) and the rain was terrible, lucky they have a big shed/garage at the end of the garden with a garage door that swings out, was perfect for keeping the rain away.

Surrounding the house are the following woods, Birch, Elder, Cherry, Oak and Willow, I forget the other names. Reading from numerous posts/sites I decided to go with the willow, I got my axe and saw and went onto the field to get the stuff... one tip, don't chop wood in the rain, its slighty agrevating! Anyways, I got my HUGE branch (looked like the main trunk) and dragged it to the garage and de-barked it. Has anybody else realized that de-barking wet wood is really stress-releaving? Comes off good and easy. I used a circular saw to saw the branch into small logs and then chiseled them into smaller 'sticks'. by the time I chopped the first few logs my uncle had started the fire with petrol so I hurried the chopping up, I stuck the wood in the tin in no relative pattern, made two finger-tip sized holes in the top and battered the sides a little to keep the lid locked on the tin.

The whole process must have gone for a good 2-3 hours, I was sure I had a nice roaring fire, using coal and firewoord to keep it constantly burning. Anyways, after about 3 hours I took the tin off the fire because I wasnt sure if I could over-do-it, it was still emitting a tiny amount of smoke out of the holes which by the way, didnt set alight when I tried to light. I turned the tin upside-down and put a good few bricks on top to stop oxygen getting to the stuff. After about 1-2 hours I went back to claim my prize... At first I was impressed, it seemed the whole stuff had turned into charcoal, but when I examined a little further I only managed to turn about 1/3 into charcoal - thats about 120g as I'm weighing the stuff right now back at home. 120g of willow charcoal for my first attempt isnt too dissatisfying, I've already turned most of it into airfloat by using a good old rolling pin.

A couple of questions if anybody would like to answer - My aunt is certain the tree is willow, which I trust her judgement - only thing is, the branches dont hang down like I see on weeping willow next to rivers (in pictures), does this neccesaraly mean that it's not weeping willow, or is all willow a good wood to use for BP charcoal (By the way, the wood made a clean snaps when I chopped it, and seemed to have little resins in the wood). Also, has anybody else had the same problem as me, and if so how did they overcome the problem? My next attempt will be to chop the wood into very finer pieces as I think I under chopped it.

Anyways, stay green!

Regards,
Drew:)

Edited by BigG, 13 October 2005 - 04:02 PM.

[Pretty green flames]

There are very many types of willow trees so it could be a willow tree but just not the kind you're used to see by the river side.

You might also want to try alder for BP, it gives some really fast BP.

[Ritual33]

So, willow is willow when were talking about pyrotechnics... well the next time I go up (prob when I get some money for a ball mill (tumbler ) which should I choose for the fastest, elder or willow? Btw, I've been sitting here watching tv whilst crushing, whacking and rubbing bp (1-2 hours almost) with the willow I got (50g mix) and I know its only green but it burns instantly with little residue, just a few tiny balls of kno3(?), tis nice to know I'm on the right track though.

Regards,
Drew

[Pretty green flames]

Well willow BP is a bit overrated IMO, yes ofcourse it gives fast BP but so does alder and balsa, balsa give better BP, if you look a Lady kate's web site and his charcoal as a variable tests willow was not among the best but still good.

Alder gives extremly good BP. 10gram lift for a 50gram star payload not only shot the stars at an amazing height but destroyed the mortar. Pieces were found aleast 3meters away. Give alder a chance, it will not dissapoint you.

[Ritual33]

Well I still got a 10ft log of willow to get through first so that should last me quite a while, I will prob turn that into charcoal next week sometime, I was very impressed with the green meal so I cant wait to turn it into something more usefull... should hopefully get a ball mill by next month, till then I'm just going to be playing around with my crude stuff, which is quite interesting, I'm very impressed, the bp I used to make was very poor quality, I think it was charcoal from a tesco garage and cheap but not cheerfull kno3 and sulphur. Btw, I'm using the 75 10 15 formula which is measured using 0.01g scales so its very accurate... will the kno3 'pearls' left when burnt be gone when I ball mill it?

I'VE SMELT THE SMOKE!!

Regards,
Drew

Edited by Ritual33, 13 October 2005 - 06:08 PM.

[completebeginner]

i am in the middleof making my third batch of alder charcoal and was wondering if it is possible to over cook charcole because wouldn't it get rid of more volatiles if you were to continue cooking it after the smoke stopped

Edited by completebeginner, 13 October 2005 - 06:51 PM.

[Ritual33]

Thats the same question that was running through my head when I took the tin off the fire, seems I undercooked it, after 2-3 hours Keep cooking it till theres NO smoke coming out of the holes... Think thats the best way to tell.

Regards,
Drew

[Mumbles]

From what I understand, there are two trains of thought in charcoal quality. In either case it is possible to over cook. Overcooking would tend to come from a higher temperature, not an extended time. To turn charcoal bad, you would have to cook it far past the carbonation end point. We are talking several hours to days depending on the batch size.

The first opinion, and the one shared by a majority of people, is that it is the volitile components of the wood which is what makes the BP fast. To boil off all the volitiles would take an extremely long time.

The second opinion is that it is the broken ends of the carbon structure. Coal or soot is amorphous carbon. Graphite is very ordered. Charcoal is somewhere in between. Charcoal has a partially crystaline structure. Graphite is composed of rings of carbon situated in layers. Charcoal will have partial, but broken rings. The ends of these broken rings are where reaction is likely to happen. So by logic, the more broken ends there are, the better the BP will be. Heat closes the rings. To fully convert charcoal into graphite, it requires 24 hours at 1000C I believe.

Either way you believe it, to make bad charcoal, you have to deliberatly do it pretty much. Check it every hour or half hour or so. After it stops smoking, I let it go for another half hour to hour or so to ensure complete conversion.

[Ritual33]

A very informative post there Mumbles thanks The process of making charcoal doesnt half make you smell, I can still smell a little smoke on me after a shower! When I make some more charcoal next week I'll make sure it's cooked real good, need to find myself another tin now, the other one is battered. Btw, you got an active site up atm?

Regards,
Drew

[Mumbles]

Funny you ask. I had one, but the building where the servers were located burned down tuesday. Kind of puts a damper on things. I am currently looking for a new host. I am talking to a friend about it.

To make this post not completely off topic. I'm sure most of you have heard of conductive lampblack. It is used in bridgeless ignitors. It is formed by an oxygen poor acetylene flame, and the soot is collected. The high temperature forms a near graphite structure right away. One can convert normal lampblack to conductive by heating to 1000C for the 24 hours. I think I got that 1000C for 24 hours from Ian von Malitz's book.

[al93535]

I make my charcoal in those big popcorn tins you can get. I simply dig a hole in the backyward, fill it with wood and light it up. After about 30 minutes I throw a grate over it and put my tins on. Last time I used two, one for willow, one for pine. I like to move the tins every 15 minutes or so, roll them over. You just have to watch out not to knock off the top. I take the tins off about 15 minutes after they stop smoking. I would guess it takes about 2 hours for it all to cook. But I think my short time is due to me cutting the wood up into sticks about 1" thick and 4 inches long. It seems to work well. I don't think I would use any larger vessels for making the charcoal because these cool down pretty quickly, and are easy to work with. Also, I just use a hammer and smash it all up to use for BP. For use in comps I mill it.

I want to get myself some lampblack for a few different stars. I didn't know it was from acetylene. But when first lighting the welding torch it does throw off alot of soot!!!

[Ritual33]

When I get my servers back up, I'll be giving out free hosting, php, mysql blah blah - whatever you need, I'll let you know when I do so, need to get a new hub before I can make a start.

Regards,
Drew

[Pieman]

I went to a family get together over the weekend and was talking to my uncle about pyro (it was the 200 shot firework cake that got the discussion rolling). Apparently he used to make a bit of gunpowder when he was young. He said that instead of charcoal he used cream of tartar it made much better gunpowder. Has anybody heard of, or even tried, this method?

[Ritual33]

Sounds tasty , wouldnt that be a little messy to say the least?

Regards,
Drew