Jump to content


Photo

How to prepare smoke compositions


  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#1 KingVinny

KingVinny

    Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 29 September 2004 - 07:18 PM

Sorry if this type of thread exists, I have looked for it but haven't found anything that answers my questions.

I have all the ingredients to make white, red and yellow/orange smoke compositions:

White Smoke
Potassium chlorate......... 44
Sulfur flour............ 15
Zinc dust.......... 40
Sodium bicarbonate ..........1

Red Smoke
Potassium Chlorate.......... 6
Lactose.............. 4
Rhodamine .............10
Sodium Bicarb............. 1
Dextrin...............1

Yellow/Orange
Potassium Chlorate........ 6
Lactose........... 4
Fluorescein .........10
Sodium Bicarb....... 2
Dextrin........ 1

Firstly has anyone made these compositions up succesfully and did they work well?
How do you prepare the compositions? Do you simply mix them up and pack them into a device or do you need to add a solvent and granulate them, or something different?
Also what type of casing should I use in view as using them to produce a smoke screen?

Again I apologise if this type of thread already exists.
Go hard and play safe!!!

#2 Creepin_pyro

Creepin_pyro

    Pyro Forum Top Trump

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,198 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 07:47 AM

The only smoke mixtures I have worked with were lightly rammed into a thick-walled case, primed, then fused through a double holed disk.

Some smoke mixtures will benefit from this hightened pressure the disk provides, but others will burn with thinner smoke. I'm not sure how to determine this.

You will find that the coloured smoke mixtures tend to have a less dense output, so the white smoke formula will be most suited to screening.

#3 italteen3

italteen3

    Newbie

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 01:37 PM

Are you looking for a screen for paintball as well KingVinny? Im looking for something I can throw that will not start fire but provides a very dense screen. I have found signal smokes that I can purchase for $8 each but that is rather expensive.

Does anyone have Smoke Generation: Tactical, Survival, Civilian By Gary Purrington? Wouldnt mind paying for it but rather come here and get some experiences.

#4 Creepin_pyro

Creepin_pyro

    Pyro Forum Top Trump

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,198 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 02:00 PM

While we're on the subject of smokes, look in any pyro glossary under Ammonium Chloride. Used in older white smoke compositions, right?

Has anyone ever seen a smoke formula using Ammonium Chloride, because I haven't......

I would love to find a good use for the stuff.

#5 Richard H

Richard H

    Pyro Forum Veteran

  • Admin
  • 2,704 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 02:15 PM

Lancaster lists at least one in his book If I remember correctly. Despite it also containing KClO3 he maintains the composition is stable. I'd be careful if you do try it...

#6 paul

paul

    Pyro Forum Regular

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 722 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 04:00 PM

I tried this mixture (a few months ago). It was the mixture with charcoal, KClO3, Ammoniumchloride etc.

Its not too sensitive against friction or something like that. If you keep it really dry, the formation of NH4ClO3 can readily be prevented. And it is not relly hard to keep it dry.

Its a good smoke mixture. But its too impractical for me, so I?ll keep on using Kn/So or Kn/Su/Parafin....

Edited by paul, 30 September 2004 - 04:02 PM.

My flickr photo album


My first very own firework pictures are online!!!

#7 bogsulphur

bogsulphur

    Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 04:07 PM

As has been said, the white smoke is the densest. I personally have not tried any of these, but I would suspect you would need to mix them extremely well, then depending on how you want the smoke, or what use it is for:
1) Fast smoke production
If the mixture is loosely laid out, e.g. just poured into a tube and not compacted, and a quantity of iron oxide added, it will burn very fast and produce a massive cloud all at once.

2)Slow smoke
If you do the same as above, but compact it, it should burn slower. A KNO3/sugar (powder) mix completely rammed down with a sledgehammer in a tube will burn for ages and give off lots of smoke.

3)Directional smoke
If you ram the mix into a long, thin tube, it will come out fast and allow you to get a directional stream of smoke to spray.

Also a KNO3/sugar 60/40 mix produces a lot of grey/white smoke and works better melted (mix it up and heat it, only the sugar melts, leaving KNO3 crystals spread around).
There are 2 types of people: Alchemists, and Chemists.

#8 castillareno

castillareno

    pyro

  • General Public Members
  • PipPip
  • 35 posts

Posted 30 September 2004 - 09:43 PM

Sorry if this type of thread exists, I have looked for it but haven't found anything that answers my questions.

I have all the ingredients to make white, red and yellow/orange smoke compositions:

White Smoke
Potassium chlorate......... 44
Sulfur flour............ 15
Zinc dust.......... 40
Sodium bicarbonate ..........1

Red Smoke
Potassium Chlorate.......... 6
Lactose.............. 4
Rhodamine .............10
Sodium Bicarb............. 1
Dextrin...............1

Yellow/Orange
Potassium Chlorate........ 6
Lactose........... 4
Fluorescein .........10
Sodium Bicarb....... 2
Dextrin........ 1

Firstly has anyone made these compositions up succesfully and did they work well?
How do you prepare the compositions?  Do you simply mix them up and pack them into a device or do you need to add a solvent and granulate them, or something different?
Also what type of casing should I use in view as using them to produce a smoke screen?

Again I apologise if this type of thread already exists.

View Post



ALL THESE COMPOSITIONS ARE MADE WITH POTASSIUM CHLORATE ?

Uhhhhhhhmmmm :mellow: Bad, dad, bad...

#9 KingVinny

KingVinny

    Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 01 October 2004 - 06:40 AM

According to the PFP database yes they are all made with potassium chlorate. Yesterday I made the red smoke and it seemed to work pretty well. The orange/yellow one did not look as promising however as I used flouroscein in place of another dye as it looked fairly similar.
Go hard and play safe!!!

#10 Phoenix

Phoenix

    UKR Forum Ex Regular!

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts

Posted 01 October 2004 - 10:06 PM

I believe that one reason that these smoke compositions use KClO3 is that they burn at a very low temperature, to avoid damaging the dye. Whilst chlorates are usually used to produce a high temperature composition, (eg. coloured star comp), they do decompose at much lower temperature than do perchlorates or nitrates, so will function more effectively in cooler burning compositions.

#11 Demented Ferret

Demented Ferret

    Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPip
  • 73 posts

Posted 08 October 2004 - 12:09 PM

White Smoke
Potassium chlorate......... 44
Sulfur flour............ 15
Zinc dust.......... 40
Sodium bicarbonate ..........1


Not a good idea from the start.

#12 sizzle

sizzle

    Pyro Forum Regular

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts

Posted 09 October 2005 - 11:13 PM

Could red smoke be made with the following:

Red Smoke
Potassium Chlorate.......... 6
Sugar.............. 4
Red Gum.............10
Sodium Bicarb............. 1
Dextrin...............1
Category 4 Trained to BPA Level 1 Equivalent.

#13 Mumbles

Mumbles

    Pyro Forum Regular

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 955 posts

Posted 10 October 2005 - 01:25 AM

No. I assume you want the redgum to vaporise and turn the smoke red. It wouldn't work.

#14 sizzle

sizzle

    Pyro Forum Regular

  • General Public Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 600 posts

Posted 10 October 2005 - 01:34 AM

Ok, thanks for the help.
Category 4 Trained to BPA Level 1 Equivalent.

#15 Ghost_Walker

Ghost_Walker

    Member

  • General Public Members
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts

Posted 14 November 2005 - 08:07 PM

the reason for the KCLO3 in these mixtures is due to the dyes....KCLO3 burns at a relatively low temperature, which will violotize the dye but not denature it..and yes i do have the Smoke Generation Book...and believe it or not almost all the smoke mixtures in that book are KCLO3 based..the only ones that werent were HC based..which is toxic to breathe, so no good for a screen....even though the military uses it, but they have gas masks...

even smoke mixtures bought from suppliers....Firefox, Skylighter..etc...are based upon KCLO3 (you have to add it )...

if you are looking for a way of making a durable smoke screen mixture i would recommend making a compositon mixture using PBAN...this keeps hydroscopity down to a minimum and increases shelf life

good luck...and i do recommend that book to anyone who is interested in smoke

Edited by Ghost_Walker, 14 November 2005 - 08:08 PM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Bing (1)