64 replies to this topic

[Bonny]

ps I cheated at chemistry a level years ago as i could id many chemicals from either taste or smell

Did you cheat at English too? Would you mind maybe adding some punctuation and capitalization where needed? Makes posts much easier for others to read and understand.

[pyrotrev]

I was recently made aware of the danger of ingesting barium carbonate, although normally regarded as too insoluble to cause any danger it will of course react with HCl in the stomach to form the soluble chloride.

[Bonny]

Isn't barium carbonate what they use in (rat) poisons? I wasn't planning on eating any anyway, but good info for all to be aware of.

[pyrotrev]

Isn't barium carbonate what they use in (rat) poisons? I wasn't planning on eating any anyway, but good info for all to be aware of.

Maybe - it would save any problems with damp I guess. Personally I prefer a gun or a good terrier - poison kills too much good wildlife

[bigtonyicu]

Isn't barium carbonate what they use in (rat) poisons?

Yes, Yest it is... but don't get any ideas on a cheap source of barium carbonate.... the rat stuff is normaly mixed with anticoagulant.

Edited by bigtonyicu, 19 June 2008 - 07:28 PM.

[Bonny]

Yes, Yest it is... but don't get any ideas on a cheap source of barium carbonate.... the rat stuff is normaly mixed with anticoagulant.

It can be found easily enough without having to resort to rat poison...

[phildunford]

The cheapest source of Barium Carbonate is a ceramics supplier... About £5 a Kilo - should keep you going for some time!

[Shake]

I work in Health and Safety and I still have all my fingers and toes intact and thats from taking precautions not only at work but with my hobby.

Pyro is a very dangerous hobby if you don't inform yourself of the hazards; but pyro can be a completely safe hobby if you follow some basic rules and keep yourself aware of the hazards.

Not sure about the UK but in Canada we have Material Safety Data Sheets that disclose all of the hazards with a chemical, how to protect yourself etc. I never use a new chemical without reviewing the MSDS.

Identifying a new chemical by taste or smell can lead your straight to emergency.

BTW Barium Carbonate is not nearly as hazardous as Barium Nitrate due to its insolubility in H20; although Barium Nitrate produce a more brilliant green than carbonate.

Please be safe.

[Mumbles]

I tend to disagree that barium carbonate isn't nearly as hazardous as barium nitrate. Within the human body, both stomach and lungs, it is absorbed just as readily as the nitrate. Both are significantly toxic.

[EnigmaticBiker]

BTW Barium Carbonate is not nearly as hazardous as Barium Nitrate due to its insolubility in H20; although Barium Nitrate produce a more brilliant green than carbonate.

I disagree, at a guess, the 0.1M HCl present in stomach juices should be strong enough to dissolve an appreciable amount of BaCO3. This is why the sulphate is used for X-ray investigations.
The dose absorbed from the ingestion of BaCO3 will be less than that of an equivalent amount of Ba(NO3)2 but still enough to cause illness.

[Mumbles]

Assuming ingestion and full absorption, barium carbonate is actually more toxic gram for gram. It contains more barium on a weight basis.

Edited by Mumbles, 11 July 2008 - 10:45 PM.

[Shake]

Assuming ingestion and full absorption, barium carbonate is actually more toxic gram for gram. It contains more barium on a weight basis.

The MSDS for Barium Carbonate and Barium Nitrate demonstrate that the Ba(NO3)2 is more toxic than the BaCO3 as outlined in the LD50 for Rat in the toxicology section.

http://msds.chem.ox...._carbonate.html
http://msds.chem.ox....um_nitrate.html

Although I feel we are splitting hairs here and just need to agree that either is not healthy. Best to be burnt and not consumed.

[BrightStar]

The MSDS for Barium Carbonate and Barium Nitrate demonstrate that the Ba(NO3)2 is more toxic than the BaCO3 as outlined in the LD50 for Rat in the toxicology section.

Rats and mice are hardy critters though - don't scale up the figures and assume they apply equally to us.

It may take 30g of Ba(NO3)2 to kill a 13 stone giant rat but my instinct is that 3g sprinkled on my chips and I'd be in serious trouble...

Edited by BrightStar, 21 July 2008 - 11:41 AM.

[digger]

The MSDS for Barium Carbonate and Barium Nitrate demonstrate that the Ba(NO3)2 is more toxic than the BaCO3 as outlined in the LD50 for Rat in the toxicology section.

http://msds.chem.ox...._carbonate.html
http://msds.chem.ox....um_nitrate.html

Although I feel we are splitting hairs here and just need to agree that either is not healthy. Best to be burnt and not consumed.

The disparity between LDLO for Man at 800 mg/kg and LDLO for Human at 17 mg/kg for barium carbonate seems a little interesting. I always thought these would be the same.

[Potassium chlorate]

KNO3 is used for preserving fish here in Sweden. I don't have any at the moment, but I think it tastes "salter" than table salt and a bit "cold" like somone said.

I actually once licked on an ammonium nitrate crystal. It was incredibly bitter and stingy on the tounge.