22 replies to this topic

[John the Bomb]

What can actually happen when you mix KClO3 and sulphur? Is it really possible that it can spontaneously combust? I heard about this so naturally i tried it out. I mixed powdered KClO4, charcoal and sulphur and lit the pile of powder with a lighter and the reaction was pretty mental, more mental than just KClO4 and charcoal.

Does anyone know the actual reaction equation? I know its quite complex, I tried to read a book on black powder once but it was way beyond me.

I take no responceability for any copycat pyros who blow their fingers off.

[Edited on 11-4-2003 by Richard H]

[Richard H]

Firstly, welcome to the forum. You seem to want to learn, so here is what you need to know.

This composition results in many chinese/indian workers being killed each year. DO NOT use it, if you are curious to see what happens then place <1g of KCLO3 on a stone floor, sprinkle some sulphur over it, mix with a hammer.

Then wack it. The resulting report made my ears burst when I tried it.

KCLO3 / S is very nasty stuff. It is chemically unstable and prone to heat, friction, and impact ignition. Do not store it either.

Never keep these reagents in the same physical container, any cross contamination could result in a serious accident.

If you value your limbs you would never ever mix any more than 1 g on a floor for the purpose of experiment.

BE CAREFULL!

[John the Bomb]

right. well thanx, i knew it was dangerous, and i'd never store them together, but what about the chemistry?

[robert johnson]

Having read your threads. I think it is about time you purchased some books on very simple do's and dont. these two chemicals really do hate each other when mixed.and will kill you very quickly.
please be safe!

[nickpatts]

Regardless of the above information being childish or dangerous,this forum is to discuss,inform,and help each other learn about the characteristics of pyro formulas. what one does with this information is soley up to them,not that I condone pushing responsibility away from the informer,but comments like this will only lead to bitchy threads and the downfall of this forum.

just my 2 cents.

Nick

[pyrotrev]

Chlorate sulphur mixes are very powerful explosives that tend to detonate (shock wave mechanism like high explosives) rather than deflagrate (burn very fast, like black powder). They are very sensitive to friction and heat, and very unstable in damp conditions, even those that have oxidiser/fuel ratios such that they don't actually explode violently (e.g. star mixes). The mechanism behind this tendency to spontaneous ignition is thought to be the presence of sulphur dioxide and sulphuric acid either by the action of air, heat and moisture on the sulphur, or by the presence of suplhur dioxide in the type of sulphur used. The latter is backed up by evidence that powdered roll suplhur tends to be more stable in the presence of chlorate than flowers of sulphur, which contain rather more dioxide (but don't try either!!!!). The sulphur dioxide/sulphuric acid react with the chlorate to form chlorine dioxide which is just about as nasty a substance as you can wish to find: poisonous, explosively unstable and a powerful oxidier to boot. It's thought to be this which initiates the ignition, which in turn sets off the rest of the mixture.

[Richard H]

A very good response. I'll include your post in the members area on the website soon.

[Pyromaster2003]

hi.....im just asking a question>>>

i mixed a small amount (3 grams roughly) of sodium chlorate (weedkiller),charcoal and 'yellow sulphur' together in a pestel and mortar(i was wearing eye protection and hard leather gloves). i put i hell of a lot of pressure on it and grinded it realy hard but nothing happend. i then put this mixture on the floor and put a sheet of metal on top then waked it with a hammer....nothing happend again.????what is going on? chlorate and sulphur are suposed to be very sensitive to friction and shock aren't they? i will spray it with water and try the experiments again.....moisture should make it even more sensitive i think? i sieved my sodium chlorate weedkiller to get rid of the fire retardent, i think it is about 80% pure since iv sieved it, am i right? is the 'yellow sulphur' very pure? i read on a data sheet for yellow and green sulphur that its 100% pure?:-)

[Rhodri]

Hi

If you're using 'Co-Op' or 'local Iron Munger' style NaClO3 it will be fire suppressed with NaCl - about 45 - 48%.

This will greatly inhibit it's oxidising properties.

If you're curious, there's a thread on this board regarding the separation and purification of NaClO3 from such a retarding agent.

The addition of the NaCl is doing its job in preventing the 'weedkiller' from acting as a powerful oxidiser - good for home safety but not so good for pyrotechnic experimentation.

[Pyromaster2003]

well once iv sieved the weedkiller this increases the burn rate of chlorate BP by about 60%. thanks for the reply, il try the seperation method and try the test again.

[Pyromaster2003]

err...werz tha thign on the site wer it tells u how to purify sodium chlorate weedkiller?where do i go to get the access password?it says 'go to the members area or sumin'?

[Rhodri]

Ah! Thought you'd ask for that.

Search for Potassium Chlorate. You'll find loads of threads - toward the end you'll find a reply from Richard (Administrator) providing a URL to a site. Try that.....

[Pyromaster2003]

i think its probably the site where it tells you how to make potassium chlorate from 'low salt'?iv made that already but when i left it outside...the wind blew it all over and i didn't get any....its very easy to do though. where do i get the access password from on the site?when i click on some of the forums it says 'require access password' or something?i can't find the area anywhere on the site....where is it?????

[grvtyg]

If I am thinking of the right site your trying to get into you have to go to the BPS website and click on members area and the password is posted on the page. However you need to be a member of BPS to do this.

[Pyromaster2003]

ok cheers, btw i made some chlorate bp the other day and it DOES explode when you hit it with a hammer:o......when i tryed it before it didnt. i put the powder on a concrete floor and pressed and grinded it with a hammer....it didnt explode but i think it ignited a bit. then i used the same chlorate bp and hit it with the hammer......it exploded and was deffaning.....o yer....where it says 'attachment'.....i click browse and find the picture i want to add but it doesn't appear on the reply?im glad i done those tests as this shows how sentitive it is and i will be more carefull i i make any more.