33 replies to this topic

[YT2095]

if you make the brown/yellow, it will go Blue as soon as you mix it with water
blue is just the Hydrated form of it.

[Bonny]

if you make the brown/yellow, it will go Blue as soon as you mix it with water
blue is just the Hydrated form of it.

I ran out of copper carbonate before the rxn was completed. The solution is currently a very dark green/brown colour.I don't want to contaminate using another carbonate to finish neutralizing the HCL. Will the HCL evaporate off or could it be heated to drive it off? It's difficult for me to get to the pottery shop before it closes after work...

Edited by Bonny, 08 August 2007 - 12:35 PM.

[YT2095]

the excess HCl will indeed be driven off with gentle heat, although you MUST do this either outside or in a suitable fume cupboard else every bit of metal within that room will corrode (including circuit boards and TVs!).

you May also end up with some HCl Locked up in the crystals themselves, this isn`t a good thing as it`s then quite a reactive material and will make unstable certain pyro comps.

unless you NEED it ASAP, I suggest you hydrate the lot into the Blue soln and store it until you Can get more carbonate.

[Bonny]

the excess HCl will indeed be driven off with gentle heat, although you MUST do this either outside or in a suitable fume cupboard else every bit of metal within that room will corrode (including circuit boards and TVs!).

you May also end up with some HCl Locked up in the crystals themselves, this isn`t a good thing as it`s then quite a reactive material and will make unstable certain pyro comps.

unless you NEED it ASAP, I suggest you hydrate the lot into the Blue soln and store it until you Can get more carbonate.

I would definately be doing this outside. The end use for this is only to soak pinecones or sawdust in a (saturated) solution, so compatibility should not be a problem.In future I may make some for pyro use, but I have some that I bought for that.

[YT2095]

in that case it`s not a problem, you may even get some further chlorination take place with a few of the more volatile organics in there that should act towards being a Chlorine donor too

I have to ask though, I know about the pine cones on a fire to give the color, but what do you use the sawdust for?

[Bonny]

in that case it`s not a problem, you may even get some further chlorination take place with a few of the more volatile organics in there that should act towards being a Chlorine donor too

I have to ask though, I know about the pine cones on a fire to give the color, but what do you use the sawdust for?

The sawdust can be used the same way (apparently) yielding a powder to toss into the fire rather than a pinecone. The link in first post here mentions both. It does also state that some liquid glue can be added to sawdust make clumps. Would regular white glue be OK?

[YT2095]

thanks, and as for the white glue it`s hard to say without knowing Exactly what`s in it, you certainly do NOT want any sodium contamination in there.
maybe you could make a glue line on a sheet of clean glass and let it dry, then peel it off and lite it, if it`s yellow like sodium, then no.

[Bonny]

the excess HCl will indeed be driven off with gentle heat, although you MUST do this either outside or in a suitable fume cupboard else every bit of metal within that room will corrode (including circuit boards and TVs!).

you May also end up with some HCl Locked up in the crystals themselves, this isn`t a good thing as it`s then quite a reactive material and will make unstable certain pyro comps.

unless you NEED it ASAP, I suggest you hydrate the lot into the Blue soln and store it until you Can get more carbonate.

I heated the solution (outside) last night for an hour or so, there still seems to be HCl left though. Would adding copper oxide produce more copper chloride and use up the rest of the acid? If not I will continue heating tonight.

[YT2095]

sure, the reaction proceeds as such: CuO + HCl --> CuCl2 + H2O.

but the carbonate will be cheaper I think.

[Bonny]

sure, the reaction proceeds as such: CuO + HCl --> CuCl2 + H2O.

but the carbonate will be cheaper I think.

I don't remember the prices, but I do have some CuO. I doubt I will be able to get to store until sometime next week and would like to finish this on the weekend. Based on the above reaction, will I be able to see any reaction occurring as there is no gas being produced? To check for completion, should I use litmus paper to verify no acid left? Please keep in mind I have no lab and my resources equipment are very limited...
Also once reaction is completed, can some of the water be boiled off, or is evaporation the way to go?

[YT2095]

ok, what you will see is the black CuO dissolve and make the soln more concentrated in color, eventually a point will occur where no more CuO is dissolving, keep stiring it though and if you can heat it gently do so, after a while if no more CuO has gone and it just stays there, then you can filter this out and boil your soln all you like, it will just get stronger and more concentrated.

and since you`re only doing pine cones and saw dust, you don`t even need to filter it, the CuO won`t hurt anything

Litmus paper (or even better Universal Indicator paper) is great thing to have by you, but IIRC, CuCl2 is an acidic salt anyway, so it`s not much help.

so yeah, CuO in excess, any you`ll be just fine!

[Bonny]

Tried some pinecones in the fire tonight...didn't work worth a sh%t! Tried pinecones soaked as per original post in SrCl2 and MgSO4...should have given red and white flames,but only saw orange/yellow same as the rest of the fire. Unless did something wrong, what a waste of time and chems. Maybe the pine cones themselves are the problem?

[YT2095]

strontium chloride and magnesium sulphate will react, making strontium sulphate and magnesium chloride.
the same will happen with barium salts too, in fact barium salts are used to test for Sulphate.

try just the SrCl2 on its own, and if that doesn`t work it`s the pinecones at fault.

[Bonny]

strontium chloride and magnesium sulphate will react, making strontium sulphate and magnesium chloride.
the same will happen with barium salts too, in fact barium salts are used to test for Sulphate.

try just the SrCl2 on its own, and if that doesn`t work it`s the pinecones at fault.

Sorry about the poor explanation. They were different batches of pinecones. One set soaked in MgSO4 and the other SrCl2. Must be the pine cones. Maybe I will try adding only the salt to the fire and see what happens. The "magic fire " they sell contains CuSO4,CuCO3, and PVC. It gives green to purple flames.
Maybe using any of the salts + PVC for added chlorine will work better? My SrCl2 is in solution so I will have to evaporate first, then I will try with some PVC powder.

[YT2095]

yeah, try the salt alone 1`st, that should give reasonable results, and don`t forget that pinecones will have all manner of other color contributing compounds within them too, incl Sodium sadly.

it`s a pity you didn`t have some sort of Inorganic substrate to impregnate instead.