94 replies to this topic

[pyrotechnist]

I was reading through the old 1875 act and came across this:

Section 48

Go to section 48 and read onwards . This seems like a great type of license for people like us but nothing like this has been passed into MSER and as such we are stuck with a shitty regulation that just makes everyone confused (even HSE!).

Oh and the major price difference Prices for manufacturing licenses

Edited by pyrotechnist, 18 July 2008 - 05:55 PM.

[pyrotrev]

I think a lot of it is to do with how things were done in 1875 - there would have been quite a lot of small fireworks factories in business in those days, and the politicians wouldn't have been paranoid about terrorism, in those daysyou needed a decent army to get anything done. When MSER was concocted there would have only been a couple of proper fireworks factories, and even the UKPS was only in its infancy, so I guess the lawmakers saw it easier to remove any provision for small scale manufacture. Regarding the licence fees, I seem to remember that a pint cost a few d in those days, so maybe it was in proportion

[David]

I think a lot of it is to do with how things were done in 1875 ... the politicians wouldn't have been paranoid about terrorism

Well, with have This going on in 1884...

To quote from it- As usual, when outrages of this foul description and discoveries of dynamite have taken place, many false rumours were afloat of explosions at public buildings other than those mentioned. It was stated that the Wellington Barracks, St. James's Park, had been blown up, but there was no foundation for the rumour. It was also rumoured that an explosion had taken place at Paddington, but on investigation this also proved to be untrue.

The times they arn't a-changing....

[Mortartube]

If you are talking about the small manufacturers factory licence, this was done away with by the HSE in the mid 80's if I recall. It was ended as nobody had applied for one in over 30 years and was therefore considered old irrelevant legislation. I don't see why this group cannot lobby for the reinstatement of the small manufacturers licence, given a revived interest.

[crystal palace fireworks]

If you are talking about the small manufacturers factory licence, this was done away with by the HSE in the mid 80's if I recall. It was ended as nobody had applied for one in over 30 years and was therefore considered old irrelevant legislation. I don't see why this group cannot lobby for the reinstatement of the small manufacturers licence, given a revived interest.

Great idea!.........before we lobby.........I think we all need to discuss practical solutions regarding siteing standards, to basic design of out-buildings/shed and equipment safety, to waste disposal of materials etc.

I think we should consult the `Explosives Directorate` on our proposals before we present to the HSE!

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 21 July 2008 - 07:54 AM.

[pyrotechnist]

I really think the UKPS need to try and get the HSE to bring this back again as I think it will be perfect for people like us. I do not see why I should pay around 4k for a full blown manufacturers license for only one construction building and one storage unit .

[Mortartube]

I agree that a sensible well thought out argument and plans should be presented to the HSE. I don't know where my copy of the 1875 act is, but from recollection, the small manufacturers licence would be ideal for the society's needs.

[phildunford]

This certainly seems to be something we should be trying. It would be relevent to many of our member...

[crystal palace fireworks]

I really think the UKPS need to try and get the HSE to bring this back again as I think it will be perfect for people like us. I do not see why I should pay around 4k for a full blown manufacturers license for only one construction building and one storage unit .

I agree in principle, there should be a small manufacturers license for one`s own use only at a nominal fee! (testing or firing of fireworks can only be done off-site at a UKPS field or designated firing facility).........also I don`t see why there can`t be a further license (say 2 or 3 years down the line) for those that want to meet BS 7411 standards for re-sale (providing current manufacturing quantites are adhered too when manufacturing at home/garden shed etc), and that larger quantities of those fireworks are stored off site i.e current MSER regs.

This in essence would encourage small business, and help unemployment, and perhaps go a little way in having a back-up supply of fireworks should there be problems on the import front with the chinese.............does anyone disagree with this principle?

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 22 July 2008 - 04:10 PM.

[pyrotechnist]

How does one go about getting such regulations back? is this possible for the society to do? It would be great if we can get this back as long as we do not have to pay 4k for it . When I last spoke to HSE is all they said is the current manufacturing license is optimal for anything over 100g manufacture . So asking for an exemption over 100g probably will mean a reply stating the current manufacturing license is good enough for that and so an exemption is not needed.

[portfire]

If you are talking about the small manufacturers factory licence, this was done away with by the HSE in the mid 80's if I recall. It was ended as nobody had applied for one in over 30 years and was therefore considered old irrelevant legislation. I don't see why this group cannot lobby for the reinstatement of the small manufacturers licence, given a revived interest.

Indeed. Lancaster mentions this, and was scrapped. It would be a different story now...Very interesting subject

[Arthur Brown]

I suspect that if HSE supported a petition from sufficient people who were wise and prospectively competent then the relevant minister could make an amendment to the regulations quite simply. As Regulations made by the minister and department under the authority of the Act (HSWA) amendments to regulations will only need to be presented to the House and if unchallenged they become effective! Regulations do not need to be debated by both houses.

Health and safety at work act - debated at length by both houses of parliament.

MSERegulations - made by the appropriate department and laid before the House of Commons without discussion, may never have been debated. Amendments can be made the same way.

[pyrotechnist]

How would one go about doing such thing Arthur? and what would we need to present to them?

[crystal palace fireworks]

How would one go about doing such thing Arthur? and what would we need to present to them?

Sorry, If I may interject!

Firstly, we would need to discuss our ideas and the finer details with everyone in the UKPS, and then perhaps a few of us could each make a presentation which could get voted-on as the best! I would present the winning proposal to the HSE and/or HSL (health & safety Laboratory) and the explosives directorate - along the lines of MSER, and then engage other organistions to show them the benefits to commerce/education/manufacturing skills and the community etc.

[pyrotechnist]

Well there is no better time than now to start this . So everyone start putting ideas together and writing them down here and lets see what we can all come up with. This is perfect for all of us even if the quantities have to be shortened I personally do not care as long as I can manufacture fireworks in my one shed without a 4k license. I will happily spend at least 200 or so pounds on a license like that but obviously the cheaper the better it is.