35 replies to this topic

[dr thrust]

hi i went along to a "local" display this evening at the cricket club they have a big display every year, proper job cat4 cakes and mortars fired buy professionals, but this evening about ten minutes into the show there was a terrible BANG!
a real chest thumper a shell went off in the tube and the show was stopped because a firer was injured and a ambulance called and he was taken away
the chaps regrouped after 30 mins and finished the show, later it was announced that the injured guy was not to bad just "slight burns".
so! here's my point what is the point of hand firing big stuff? why not do it remotely drinking tea pressing buttons? 500 ft away, Shirley your putting yourself a risk if you are hand firing a big show its a bit retro this day and age

[wjames]

i see your point.....it is a bit old school........perhaps they just werent the best of firers.


regardless - i hope the guy is alright......hate to see a fellow pyro injured.

[Spyrotechnics]

perhaps they just werent the best of firers

Not sure thats the best of comments, especially given the fact that someone was injured.

A lot of companies will hand fire, or will allow the firers to hand fire should I say. Whilst I agree it can be safer to electric fire it is also a somewhat sanitised way of firing a display, I like getting in there with the portfire/blowtorch every now and again.

Hand firing shells (if indeed it was a shell that malfunctioned) does have a heightened risk however and some companies now adopt an "all electric" policy for all shells.

Hope the injured party is ok.

Stu


edited: I have seen the video footage, hard to estimate the shell size, but its definately a shell that explodes at ground level, I would say if the firer only has minor burns then he has been relatively lucky, it certainly makes you think.

Edited by Starsky72, 19 October 2008 - 09:25 AM.

[Mortartube]

I personally prefer hand firing. Electrical firing bores me to tears. But there should always be a long enough delay on items to allow the firer to be far enough away if something like this does occur. It is here that experience kicks in to know when to light an item before the previous one has finished to keep a smooth continous show running.

Happily most companies who hand fire do this, but I still hear of people lighting straight into quickmatch on occasion for shells etc, which is just ludicrous.

I hope that the firer is ok, best wishes to him.

[Arthur Brown]

If you want a safe hobby then don't do fireworks or parachuting!

Many people assume that fireworks will do as it says on the label -they don't always! Training, experience, hazard and risk assessment, should assist in reduction of problems, correct PPE may add some protection to operators,

Most companies will hand fire sometimes, simply because they cannot afford the hi-tech systems for the UK firework market spike on 5th November. Also hand firing means less time on site, I've seen one firm arrive with the lives an hour before firing, lay out, and fire and be gone in three hours, I've seen electric shows take 14 hours to fuse - and that is time that has to be paid to crew.

Will the HSE publish a proper report so that other firers can learn from this?

[GZ22]

I'm glad that the firer is not seriously hurt. I was at the same venue in 1997 (as a spectator) when a candle fell over and struck the crowd.

I've also seen the footage, - the firer is reported to have multiple injuries, including burns to his face. I hope he has a speedy recovery.

[GZ22]

I forgot about this link I saved a while back - it shows in close detail the handfiring of multiple shells, with some accidental early cross ignitions, though thankfully no accidents. Hand firing is a hazardous operation, but I too do enjoy it.

http://www.pyroinnov...us_Handfire.wmv

Edited by GZ22, 19 October 2008 - 11:35 AM.

[dr thrust]

If you want a safe hobby then don't do fireworks or parachuting!

Many people assume that fireworks will do as it says on the label -they don't always! Training, experience, hazard and risk assessment, should assist in reduction of problems, correct PPE may add some protection to operators,

Most companies will hand fire sometimes, simply because they cannot afford the hi-tech systems for the UK firework market spike on 5th November. Also hand firing means less time on site, I've seen one firm arrive with the lives an hour before firing, lay out, and fire and be gone in three hours, I've seen electric shows take 14 hours to fuse - and that is time that has to be paid to crew.

Will the HSE publish a proper report so that other firers can learn from this?

i do enjoy fireworks as a hobby, but i want to do it safely i fire my small back garden shows electrically, no lap top hi tech here, if i can do it so can the pros, electric firing has other advantages like better timing for multiple effects, so you're saying it all boils down to money?.
it just seems strange to me with all the rules a regs on buying, storing, transporting cat4 etc, that you can then just stand next to the thing, and maybe it will fire ok/ maybe it wont! sorry not acceptable, this is just the view of a shocked spectator me! this what i saw flowerpot

Edited by chris m, 19 October 2008 - 12:10 PM.

[GZ22]

Back in the late 90's electric firing added approx. £1 to the cost of each firework - this becomes a considerable amount for the client when costing a large display.

[crystal palace fireworks]

Looking at the pyroinnovations vid (american company) as posted by GZ22,...........to me is not acceptable on a number of counts.

Firstly if a professional firer is going to hand fire cat 4, then the PPE gear (from what I saw) he was wearing was in my opinion insufficient in;- not having fullface protection.

Secondly either the spacing of the mortar launches needed to be furthur apart, or/and plus fusing should have been longer and tiered (or a slower rate burn rate fuse used) to allow the fireworks to launch in sequence to allow him to retire to a safer distance (perhaps even behind a portable shield placed a few metres away).

Thirdly fireprotection overalls are a must, but for added protection I would like to see some form of legislation for schrapnal body protection to the torso as a must have.

Electric fusing does take an enormous amount of time to set up (as Arthur said) compare to hand firing, so I agree a report from the HSE is needed on that incident for all concerned.

From a personal point of view, I would prefer to fire in most instances Cat 4 electrically!

I hope the guys injuries are not life threatening, and he makes a speedy recovery!

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 19 October 2008 - 12:50 PM.

[GZ22]

Having the correct spacing in between mortars and, and proctecting adjacent QM from cross iginition is very important. We used to link shells with QM and ignite either electrically or manually with PIC from one end only, giving the firer enough time to light and retreat. PPE consisted of a proban treated coverall, heavy gauntlets, hard hat with ear defenders and a mesh visor.

[Arthur Brown]

An timely HSE approved report made available to cat4 users may help to prevent a repeat of the same incident.

The trouble is also that the fireworks display industry is full of "characters" some of whom are more receptive than others to continuing professional development. What was best practise may well have been improved on in the recent years.

Further legislation will not help, HSAW already requires a safe system of work through to adequate PPE, Just that not everyone thinks about it til it's too late. I've seen someone (not on here) hand fire a summer evening cat 4 show wearing chinos and a short sleeve shirt, no hat overalls or visor no nothing! SO FAR he's got away with it but sooner or later... and he is the MD of an EIG member company.

[Mortartube]

I have mixed feelings about the use of ear defenders. They certainly save your hearing but they also prevent you hearing your colleagues shouting at you when there is potential danger nearby.

[dogsbody]

ok, i agree with mortatube on this, but most ear defenders only defend against a decible range. whn manual firing with another i use ear defenders that have a radio built in to them so that we can talk to each other that way whilst still having the ear defenders on (we use these for comms with a carnival float to help relieve us from the 25000 sound system and let us actually talk to one another!) only prob is they aint cheap, about £300+ per pair!

[yorkie]

Watching the video, check out the legnth of the fuses that the bloke is using, when lit quickmatch will try to escape just like a garden hose will if the pressure is too high, the effect of this is like a whiplash action which can take the burning end of the qm over the exposed ends of all the other fuses that it can reach. Keeping the shell leaders as short as is practicle can reduce the incedence of crossover. No substitute for proper ppe or electric firing but it can reduce the number of pairs underpants that you need to throw away