41 replies to this topic

[pyrotechnist]

Where from?

[Pyromaster2003]

im very interested! tell me more please.

[Stuart]

I am. Do you need to use a chlorate for the colour comp if PVC is used?

Stuart

[lord_dranack]

Not necessarily. I believe there are compositions based on nitrates and magnesium, although as I have not yet got any pvc, I have not tried them.

Is the pvc the correct type for pyro? (When I have asked lab suppliers about it before they have had lots of different types)

[BigG]

To produce colours you need three conditions answered.
First you must have chlorine donor. Second, you must have a colour donor. Third, you must have high enough temperature. PVC is a chlorine donor, so that is your first problem solved. Strontium, Copper, Barium, Calcium ? are all colour donors that are easily available. However, you are still left with the temperature problem. Nitrates are not energetic enough to produce high enough temperature. Chlorates and Perchlorates are (at least those who are used in pyro). As the lord mentioned, the addition of magnesium can get you high enough temperature. So do fine grades of Magnelium and even aluminium (although 3 and 8 micron are not easy to get in the UK). Using magnesium is as hazardous as chlorates ? and you need to know what you are doing. Magnesium does not react well with water, acids and basics to name a few ? and it can extract oxygen from almost anything ? so it?s very hard to extinguish if something so wrong (a bucket of water will send the flames sky high, and magnesium can even extract oxygen from sand?)

There are other chlorine donors lying around which are widely available ? but using them can create some horrific problems if the person does not know what he/she are doing. So, do a good research and you might find something useful.

[Stuart]

I'm looking at a source of PVC, comes in 25Kilo bags about ?3-4 a kilo pure pvc 99% passes 0.4mm mesh any interest?

Thanks BigG.
Do the suppiers have a web address?

Stuart

Edited by Stuart, 20 November 2003 - 10:33 PM.

[lord_dranack]

As the lord mentioned

by the way, the name's Thomas (I'll start signing my posts!)

[Creepin_pyro]

Have found this site: http://www.fi-clor.co.uk

I thought that maybe some of the products listed here might be suitable to use as a chlorine donor, although I'm not really sure. Any thoughts?

Had no sucess with powder coating companies..... will try ringing some up for samples if I still can't source a chlorine donor.

Am I going off at a tangent here, or would this be useful?

Calcium Hypochlorite - 1 kilo jar

Price: ?6.70 Including VAT at 17.5%

An unstabilised chlorine donor especially suitable for shock chlorination.

OXIDISING - MUST BE SHIPPED BY CARRIER

Edited by Creepin_pyro, 03 February 2004 - 12:36 PM.

[Matt]

By the looks of things skylighter ships parlon now...

-Matt

[Rhodri]

Hi Creepin_pyro

I would strongly advise against using hypochlorite derivatives in pyro. comps. Too unstable and you may form dangerously sensitive intermediate compounds - especially with metals.

[BigG]

Have found this site: http://www.fi-clor.co.uk

I thought that maybe some of the products listed here might be suitable to use as a chlorine donor, although I'm not really sure.  Any thoughts?

Had no sucess with powder coating companies..... will try ringing some up for samples if I still can't source a chlorine donor.

Am I going off at a tangent here, or would this be useful?

Calcium Hypochlorite - 1 kilo jar

Price:  ?6.70 Including VAT at 17.5%

An unstabilised chlorine donor especially suitable for shock chlorination.

OXIDISING - MUST BE SHIPPED BY CARRIER

Using Calcium Hypochlorite with chlorate or parchlorate can result in an explosion. Better contact Arthur Brown that is looking at a bulk buy from a germen producer, or buying directly from oversees.

[alany]

They always have AFAIK? It isn't really dangerous, except perhaps for the stray carbon tetrachloride that might be hanging around in it, but the dangers of that are largely imaginary for such small quantities.

Parlon is pretty low density, so a pound is like 2 litres or more in volume, that can push up the shipping. Also skylighter's most recent parlon has lots of little rubbery bits in it, so you need to sift it well before use. I am collecting all the lumps, not sure what I'll do with them, but someone on rec.pyrotechnics suggested dissolving them in a cocktail of solvents (pretty challenging) and using them as a liquid binder.

I made some match using parlon and redgum (with potassium perchlorate as the oxidiser) made all sloppy with acetone and a touch of MEK. Works pretty well, all nice and rubbery when it eventually dried out, doesn't break up like blackmatch does, but it burns quite a bit slower. It still works as quickmatch if you put some pipe over it.

[Matt]

yes but can you really put a price on good colours?

-Matt

[BigG]

yes but can you really put a price on good colours? 

-Matt

I can. There is a verity of other effects one can master. Really, if colour is too expensive, I'll give it a pass.

Alany, good mention of the carbon tetrachloride. Most people are not even aware of this nasty little chemical. However, this chemical is fully bound in Parlon, and is not generally a problem. It becomes a problem if you dissolve parlon, for example in 10%NC in Acetone. But then again, if you use NC in Acetone as a binder, you should be wearing chemical resistance gloves anyway…

[lord_dranack]

I agree on BigG all the way here. I have done some experiments with colours using chlorates and shellac, but they are both not very good any dangerous!
Untill I get some perchlorate, parlon, magalium etc. I am giving colours a rest. The effects you can get with metal powders, charcoal, lampblack and the like are incredable!