45 replies to this topic

[David]

I was firing a few fireworks on Saturday, a mix of some old flashpowder based stuff, and some new blackpowder effects.

Well, its safe to say they are different! The old blackpowder rockets were basically small, with an echoing bang and a peony- the small blackpowder rockets went "phut" with a bit of uncordinated colour.

That said, I didn't dislike the blackpowder ones- the general rocket effect (whooshing upwards etc) wasn't ruined by unnecessary noise.

The old flashpowder cakes were basic peonies, too, again with that typical big "bang" with each burst. The blackpowder burst, form a cake the same bore size, were smaller, and a bit more "glitter" based, without the loud bang.

Again, it depends on what people are expecting- if volume is important (other than whistles) then it is lacking a bit with blackpowder.

But if people are happy without loud noise, then in some ways blackpowder is prefered.

That said, these were all small fireworks- I'm yet to be convinced of blackpowder's effectivness in "the bigger stuff."

[pyrotechnist]

The importers are simply trying to keep the same old and same size firework and putting a less energetic material within it which requires more compression and size to get a better effect. I believe black powder will work just fine and dandy if sealed right and if it is of a good enougth speed and quality etc. There is not a cat in hells chance of the same bore tubes creating an equal or louder noise and same burst size as the flash based fireworks by using black powder, the bore size has to be increased, more powder used, better quality powder and more compression for the same firework to be good enougth.

[Floydman]

David - I really think you are flogging a dead horse with the blackpowder thing. I think more and more people are going to stop buying these puny alternatives that are now being produced to meet new regs. As I have said on this forum before fireworks are traditionally about nice colours and loud bangs.
Pyrotechnist hits the nail on the head but what is the likelihood of larger bore blackpowder items becoming available and at what cost.
I would like to hear from someone who has a way of getting around the restrictions being placed on flashpowder products - legally ofcourse !

[David]

I would like to hear from someone who has a way of getting around the restrictions being placed on flashpowder products - legally ofcourse !

"Old School" flashpowder effects are still available.

They are now either classed as 1.3G, for which storage and transportation rules are different.

Or they are "Pyromeshed" so as to be classed as 1.4G fireworks.

Edited by David, 02 July 2009 - 09:29 AM.

[David]

fireworks are traditionally about nice colours and loud bangs.

Yeah, but with blackpowder based fireworks there can be some pretty, creative effects- in some ways more preferable to the simple "It goes bang" with a bit of colour style.

That said, it is true that in some blackpowder fireworks that lack of a nice "bang" can be disappointing.

Edited by David, 02 July 2009 - 08:18 AM.

[David]

(I say this more as humour)

At a cost of about £2 a second, is there any other consumer item that comes close?

Ringside tickets for Ricky Hatton's last fight, for example.

[Spyrotechnics]

1.4G pyromeshed! "Old School" flashpowder effects are still available, but storage and transportation rules are different.

nope, they are the same as none pyromeshed 1.4G.

The main difference is the cost, the additional cost of the meshing and the additional cost of the testing to prove the meshing works

[David]

nope, they are the same as none pyromeshed 1.4G.

The main difference is the cost, the additional cost of the meshing and the additional cost of the testing to prove the meshing works

We are at crossed wires!

It's due to my habit of posting, then editting in later to add more stuff.

So to clarify, I'll edit the post above.

Edited by David, 02 July 2009 - 09:30 AM.

[Floydman]

"Old School" flashpowder effects are still available.

They are now either classed as 1.3G, for which storage and transportation rules are different.

Or they are "Pyromeshed" so as to be classed as 1.4G fireworks.

OK chaps you are losing me a bit here !

Can you put things into plain english for the "old school " !
What is all this 1.3G / 1.4G about and the pyromesh thingy ??
If flashpowder is still used in consumer fireworks (although I thought the new regs had nailed all this stuff) then can you give me some examples and some stockists who will be selling them please.
Is it really not the case that the new regs have reduced the amount of flash to a level where a firework cannot provide the sizeable bang we were all used to in the past ??

[Spyrotechnics]

Firstly the levels of flash do not have a direct impact on wether an item is a consumer item or not, it has an impact on wether its 1.4G or 1.3G (which has an impact on storage, transportation etc)

Epic fireworks specialise in 1.3G consumer items due to the size of their storage facility. We will be stocking a range of Sovereign fireworks, many of which will be higher in flash content and therefore classed as 1.3G, being a display company we are able to store etc

"Pyromesh" is basically where a firework is encased in a metal cage. It then undergoes testing to see if can then be classified as a 1.4G item - making transport and storage easier, it is a costly process however and supply of these items is limited to just a few lines throughout the industry.

[David]

Is it really not the case that the new regs have reduced the amount of flash to a level where a firework cannot provide the sizeable bang we were all used to in the past ??

It depends on the firework!

As Starsky says, "Pyromeshed" fireworks are few in number.

Anything classed as 1.3G will probably be flashpowder effect based.

HOWEVER- most ranges now, that is to say, most consumer fireworks, are 1.4G (not pyromeshed) so will now be blackpowder based, and as such not produce the sizeable bang. That said, some blackpowder based effects CAN bang too.

Perhaps most notable is the decline of the "airbomb" effect- the basic, no-nonsence "BANG" with a flash. This has typically be replaced by crackles.

[Floydman]

It depends on the firework!

As Starsky says, "Pyromeshed" fireworks are few in number.

Anything classed as 1.3G will probably be flashpowder effect based.

HOWEVER- most ranges now, that is to say, most consumer fireworks, are 1.4G (not pyromeshed) so will now be blackpowder based, and as such not produce the sizeable bang. That said, some blackpowder based effects CAN bang too.

Perhaps most notable is the decline of the "airbomb" effect- the basic, no-nonsence "BANG" with a flash. This has typically be replaced by crackles.

David - you said "old school" fireworks with flash are still available. I am assuming you mean these are the same fireworks that we used to enjoy a couple of years back. As requested in my last post can you provide examples of these and where they can be acquired please ?

[Spyrotechnics]

hellllooooooooo

Epic fireworks specialise in 1.3G consumer items due to the size of their storage facility

other companies may have some 1.3G consumer items however Epic do specialise

[David]

David - you said "old school" fireworks with flash are still available. I am assuming you mean these are the same fireworks that we used to enjoy a couple of years back. As requested in my last post can you provide examples of these and where they can be acquired please ?

I said "old school" flashpowder effects are still available, meaning more generally that flashpowder bursts are still used in some fireworks.

There ARE still old flashpowder based fireworks around, however, there have also been changes- in some cases the firework's effect is changed, but the label (name, artwork etc) remains identical. As such, a firework can have identical packaging but can be either flashpowder based or balckpowder based, depending on they year it was made. Some items will have a year, or single number ( 8 being 2008 etc) printed on the yellow information panel. Anything 2006 or before is likely to be flash, anything 2007 or later may well be blackpowder.

Some items from Brother's old range, I think, are still flash based. EG Hercules, Airboss etc.

Edited by David, 02 July 2009 - 08:43 PM.

[Floydman]

Firstly the levels of flash do not have a direct impact on wether an item is a consumer item or not, it has an impact on wether its 1.4G or 1.3G (which has an impact on storage, transportation etc)

Epic fireworks specialise in 1.3G consumer items due to the size of their storage facility. We will be stocking a range of Sovereign fireworks, many of which will be higher in flash content and therefore classed as 1.3G, being a display company we are able to store etc

"Pyromesh" is basically where a firework is encased in a metal cage. It then undergoes testing to see if can then be classified as a 1.4G item - making transport and storage easier, it is a costly process however and supply of these items is limited to just a few lines throughout the industry.

Thanks for the info.
I will make sure I check out the website.
I was really let down last year with the large items (mostly menshun) and I am looking for something that resembled the pre 2007 stock.