45 replies to this topic

[Floydman]

I said "old school" flashpowder effects are still available, meaning more generally that flashpowder bursts are still used in some fireworks.

There ARE still old flashpowder based fireworks around, however, there have also been changes- in some cases the firework's effect is changed, but the label (name, artwork etc) remains identical. As such, a firework can have identical packaging but can be either flashpowder based or balckpowder based, depending on they year it was made. Some items will have a year, or single number ( 8 being 2008 etc) printed on the yellow information panel. Anything 2006 or before is likely to be flash, anything 2007 or later may well be blackpowder.

Some items from Brother's old range, I think, are still flash based. EG Hercules, Airboss etc.

Thanks for this.
Yes I already had a heated exchange with the stockist who supplied me last year regarding the misleading nature of the packaging and description. I was referred to the manufacturer in China...... shafted !!!!
You may recall my post last year which gathered a bit of interest.

I think it would be really useful if the users of this forum could produce a list of genuine "big bang" items. Is this achieveable and worth starting a new post ??

[David]

I was really let down last year with the large items (mostly menshun) and I am looking for something that resembled the pre 2007 stock.

Yes- I remember the post well!

Men Shun's 2008 gear, to be fair, was pretty decent- but yeah, it lacked the big bangs and bursts that people expect from flash fireworks.

It was Men Shun's 2007 stuff that was a bit of a disaster.

[David]

I think it would be really useful if the users of this forum could produce a list of genuine "big bang" items. Is this achieveable and worth starting a new post ??

Yes, go for it!

I can think of some.

[Floydman]

Yes, go for it!

I can think of some.

OK I'll post something around August. Unless someone beats me to it.

[pyrotechnist]

With flash fireworks can be produced more cheaply and more quickly it seems as the cases do not need to be very thick or confined for a large bang unlike black powder. With a black powder type device the case needs to be a lot thicker and more confined with a good grain and good performing BP. Maybe they can even add whistle mix to make a much more gaseous bang which will sound very much like flash in some ways though I aint sure if the regs also say whistle is like flash, it is really as both will blow your hands off. One thing I would love to see is the reducing of crackles within fireworks as they are just sooooo over used and each device always seems to contain them or end in them. Why can we not have crossettes, comets, more flying fish, falling leaf, hummers, spinners, tracer stars, strobe stars, more glitter, more mines, bigger and better fountains instead of just squat fountains that merely crackle once again. What about the wheel set pieces and other devices we used to have in England?

[Firework Crazy]

OK where to start....

There are two types of flash based product, OLD SKOOL which are like GOLD DUST and won't even be available as of next april and they've not been importable for a couple of years. These are the items like EarthShaker, Proton Bomb etc. These contained excesive amounts of flash in the case of the two i listed above they were probably near to 80%.

All new flash powder, consumer 1.3g products are not alowed to contain more than 25% flash so even these are not as good

The new regs for 1.4g products mean that you are only allowed to use 5% flash. Now MANY companies went down the same route as the USA and removed flash completely, this is probably why you were so dissapointed with the men shun gear. It probably didnt help that you bought what you thought was an £80 piece for £40 and really it wasn't even a £40 piece.

However, some companies have really put the technicians to work in China and some items are still really pokey just look at pieces like Royal Party's Spread, which is black powder. Some just contain more powder (an example, Absolute Fury used to have about 420g of powder when it was flash, now it's nearer 800g with black powder.) However, I have been told that due to new processes some factories can now get the smallest amounts of flash in each tube even into smaller products which makes a dramatic difference. The results are yet to be seen but i'm looking forward to it.

I also noted with interest someone's comment on whistle compound. This was a fave with the US who essentially had the wool pulled over their eyes for many years it seems. However, in the UK you wouldn't be able to use this method and others you suggested. The Flash content is decided on a pressure test based on the total weight of powder. So using faster burning agents such as whistle composition you would probably fail the test and the item would be classified 1.3g for containing more than 5% flash.

So, please don't tarnish all Black Powder products with the same brush as they are not all the same.

Edited by Firework Crazy, 02 July 2009 - 11:11 PM.

[David]

So, please don't tarnish all Black Powder products with the same brush as they are not all the same.

Yeah, if they are well crafted, blackpowder effects can look nice. However, if done cheaply they can look very wimpy.

I can understand how people feel let down by blackpowder "finale" barrages that are just small bursts and pops and crackles throughout. The frustrating thing, too, is that the packaging is often identical to an old flashpowder based firework that was significantly different. A good example is Men Shun's "Independence Day". The 2006 version was pretty decent, the 2007 one... nope.

Tiger's Revenge, which was mental, is now "new spec", although I havn't seen how it compares to the old version.

Personally I havn't seen a blackpowder firework in action that I'd say was suitable as a good finale firework yet. Although, of course, I stand to be corrected as I see more stuff!

Blackpowder doesn't make good "cheap bang" fireworks, either, which is of course not necessarily a bad thing. The "bangs constantly going off in the run up to bonfire night" might be a thing of the past.

Edited by David, 03 July 2009 - 07:01 AM.

[pyrotechnist]

I dont think you have seen good enougth black powder based fireworks for finale's yet because the effects combined with using black powder are just unimaginative and cheap or simply to bloody slow, less visco people. Like my post above said why not bring back set pieces and larger wheels like we used to have? or the devil amongst the tailors mine and candle combination? Maybe even more mines for a much more varied effect or mine bouquets spread out in a fan for finale pieces. If some thought was put into the effects that can be achieved or combined together within a firework then I am sure more people will be happy with cakes etc or fireworks in general. Bangs are good and all but are not everything to do with pyrotechny so someone please get designing some good combination's that are good value for money.

[Firework Crazy]

There's plenty of large wheels, set pieces, candle and mine bouquets available you just need to look to the specialist retailers for them. We will have a good selection this year, but there not on the site yet.

[David]

Has anyone seen Kimbolton's "Shattered Rainbows" in action? It's 19 shot Crossettes (blackpowder based as is Kimbolton's range now.)

It looks dead good from the footage.

[Spyrotechnics]

it's superb

[dogsbody]

thats good 1 maybe 2 are on my shopping list this year

[David]

I've been firing a lot of blackpowder stuff recently , and to be fair, as long as the firer and the audience are not expecting massive bangs then they generally work quite well.

That said, some rely on remarkably wimpy bursts (a lot of the 2007), basically a burst which you hardly hear at all, and a little dribble of stars.

The 2008 stuff, around the £10 mark, is good fun, and if used sensibly on private property away from a built up area (specifically, a cottage in the Lakes) is not likely to be a nuicence at all, which is an advantage too for small displays during the summer evenings.

Edited by David, 26 July 2009 - 07:23 PM.

[chimp]

The 2008 stuff, around the £10 mark, is good fun,

Which stuff is that then....?

[David]

Which stuff is that then....?

Dawn of Spring, Crackling Meteors, Ariel Tailspin and another one that starts with "Ariel."

Also FI stuff like Babboons and Bazookas, Greedy Goblins (which was ace, but may not actually have been the 2008 version).


I've used them recently, and they were generally quite well recieved.

Edited by David, 27 July 2009 - 01:57 PM.