31 replies to this topic

[crystal palace fireworks]

As PDC and others have indicated, there is very little common sense & logic in some of this legislation, if there is a danger of magnesium becoming wet through transportation, then why didn`t they write a clause to include that it should be housed in a rigid air tight plastic container bottle to stop accidental puncturing or exposure to water in transportation instead of banning small quantities altogether?

The bottom line from this unaccountable faceless EU authoritarian point of view is; we can`t police it, so therefore ban it or reduce its availibility irrespective of whether it effects independant business, experimentators, scientists or hobby groups.

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 07 February 2011 - 06:29 PM.

[rocketpro]

As PDC and others have indicated, there is very little common sense & logic in some of this legislation, if there is a danger of magnesium becoming wet through transportation, then why didn`t they write a clause to include that it should housed in a rigid air tight plastic container bottle to stop accidental puncturing or exposure to water in transportation instead of banning small quantities altogether?

The bottom line from this unaccountable faceless EU authoritarian point of view is; we can`t police it, so therefore ban it or reduce its availibility irrespective of whether it effects independant business, experimentators, scientists or hobby groups.

That just about sums it up!!

[crystal palace fireworks]

ADR cant be all about health and safety as if the rules don't apply private individuals then what's the point. We have lost so much because of the EU.

Im asking myself that very question. Then it must be about terrorist movement of raw or part processed materials between member states, if that is the case, then why don`t the EU countries security authorities co-ordinate a joint registration/ID approved service for individuals/companies, so that they can keep track of who buys what from whom and move goods freely without so much restriction?......... having said that, I can`t see that being the problem solver entirely, it won`t stop terrorist transactions within one`s own member state, or stop terrorists trying to process materials/chemicals on there own from say household goods as pyrotechnist and others have quite rightly argued in the past.

There will always be rare cases of terrorism, even from within one`s own so called own circle, look at a news item today involving a armed forces guy who planted a grenade device in his girlfriends car!

[Arthur Brown]

Carriage of Dangerous Goods is the UK enactment of the United Nations ADR requirements, to minimise the hazard and risk when moving dangerous goods inside the UK

[digger]

sigh

Yes the rules do seem strict, however they are there with the intention to protect people. Terrorism is completely irrelevant in this case.

If you are carrying a product that you have bought in your car then you are perfectly aware of what you have, the odds are that you don't have vast quantities of the product as this situation would imply you are a business.

However a courier that is carrying LQ packages will have little knowledge of what is in them could have many boxes of them without knowing how to deal with the contents in the case of an accident, unlike the case of transporting under regs with proper transport documentation outlining the product details so that the emergency services can deal with an accident correctly.

So lets say you should be able to send small quantities of any substance you want, would it be ok to send 500g of lets say cyanide, pure nicotine (extremely poisonous) or anthrax. I guess you would answer no. So how would you identify what can and can't be sent in small quantities without constructing some sort of framework of rules?

The question that I guess is being asked here is why do they pick on an item that many people here want? I would hope and assume that proper risk assessments and tests have been done to validate classifications. Just because we don't like it does not mean that it is not correct. At the end of the day it is not a show stopper for us, the rules can be worked within without breaking them.

I think that there are more irritating rules being proposed, such as the one that is trying to make it necessary for all individuals to have a licence to buy certain oxidisers in the misguided belief that this will help to prevent terrorism. This is clearly not going to prevent the terrorist and only the innocent user. It will not improve safety in any way unlike the UN transport regulations.

[digger]

P.S.

As you know I work as a designer of chemical plants. If you think the pyro community has it bad then consider some of the hoops that we have to jump through. Although I have to say that they have been proven over the years to improve safety and reduce loss of life dramatically. So in general I am in favour of procedures that prevent or reduce the severity of accidents.

However I do think that an individual has the right to take a risk for themselves, what I don't accept is an individual putting others at risk by their actions without the other party being aware and agreeing to the risk.

[digger]

PPS I think the classification of MgAl alloy is wrong as the whole point of the alloy is to reduce the problems with water.

Edited by digger, 08 February 2011 - 12:16 AM.

[whoof]

If you guys in Britain would just hold periodic weekend events, suppliers like Steve and Digger could show up and hand you these unshippable chemicals. That's how I generally get materials like barium chlorate, realgar, Paris Green, black powder, etc without having to pay twice what they cost for shipping.

This is what the rocket guys do.
I can arrive at a meet and have pre ordered supplies arrive at site via a mobile shop
With sufficient planning i do not even need to take any ADR goods away afterwards.
Thing is there is a legal framework for this in place.
There is no equivalent for pyro in the uk.
Any meet would be restricted to firing purchaced fireworks with UN numbers.
As exat has pointed out there is the added problem of private carriage of hazardous goods.
I know it happens, methanol for biodiesel is a fairly common one.

[digger]

As exat has pointed out there is the added problem of private carriage of hazardous goods.

Has he? I thought he said that it does not apply (assuming the product is in retail packaging). Therefore no problem.

Edited by digger, 08 February 2011 - 09:24 PM.

[Peret]

This is what the rocket guys do. .... There is no equivalent for pyro in the uk.

So set up a "rocket" meet! Be creatively disobedient. If you can't make any other fireworks, make rockets! Don't be so beaten-down and submissive. That's how things in Britain got to this state in the first place. Think about this - How did the rocket guys get their liberties? They didn't get there by wingeing on forums about the bureaucracy, they went out and actively campaigned for them, and they succeeded. Have you written to your MP about legalising pyro lately?

[whoof]

So set up a "rocket" meet! Be creatively disobedient. If you can't make any other fireworks, make rockets! Don't be so beaten-down and submissive. That's how things in Britain got to this state in the first place. Think about this - How did the rocket guys get their liberties? They didn't get there by wingeing on forums about the bureaucracy, they went out and actively campaigned for them, and they succeeded. Have you written to your MP about legalising pyro lately?

I did suggest this once and was met with deafening silence.
There is however a big difference between building rockets with premanufactured propellent and
manufacturing the motor itself which the pyro in me would like to do.
The latter could result in severe penalties.

[whoof]

Has he? I thought he said that it does not apply (assuming the product is in retail packaging). Therefore no problem.

Sorry i was not clear, i see no problem with buying and transporting for personal use.
At a meet though the person doing the supplying would have to comply with all packaging/ transpotation requirments + MSDS.
Am not reallly sure if that is practicable or affordable, perhaps one of the suppliers could comment ?

I think that there are more irritating rules being proposed, such as the one that is trying to make it necessary for all individuals to have a licence to buy certain oxidisers in the misguided belief that this will help to prevent terrorism. This is clearly not going to prevent the terrorist and only the innocent user. It will not improve safety in any way unlike the UN transport regulations.

Particularly as you could get all the neccesary from Tesco anyway.

Edited by snert, 09 February 2011 - 03:09 PM.

[digger]

At a meet though the person doing the supplying would have to comply with all packaging/ transpotation requirments + MSDS.

As it happens there is little in the way of packaging requirement under the regs for consumer packaged items. You don't need to supply an MSDS, however there are labelling requirements under the law CHIP etc.