45 replies to this topic

[Richard H]

I suggest you buy some books on the subject to learn the basics. Also, this forum is an excellent resource. I would recommend Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics by Tom Perigrin.

You might want to read the user guide section too, we appreciate spelling, punctuation, and grammar. None of this texting language please

[Richard H]

Pyrotechnics is not something you should be undertaking if you have little idea of what you are doing. I don't want to scare you off or anything, but I would recommend you spend at least a couple of years reading the subject before you even consider striking a match.

There are so many variables that you need to think about as many members will tell you, and so if you are still serious about getting into pyrotechnics I think you should invest in a few good books.

These books are not always cheap, but the selection below is recommended.

Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics by Tom Perigrin (around ?28)
Fireworks principles and practice by Rev. Ron Lancaster (around ?80)
Fireworks: The Art, Science, and Technique by Dr. Takeo Shimizu (around ?40)

Happy reading!

[tajmiester]

I think you need to do some serious learning my friend. The web has a huge abundance of websites devoted to the art of pyrotechnics and I suggest you sample it. As to your request for special effects thats a bit too vague I am afraid. What kind of affects? Besides I would feel uneasy suppliying pyrotechnic formula to someone who is under the impression the zinc can be obtained from limestone! Thats like squeezing blood out of a stone!

Tris

P.S. I very much doubt anyone from this forum is going to write you a free book containing all of our knowledge.

P.P.S Any combustable wick would introduce carbon into the flame, turning it yellow and destroying the colour.

P.P.P.S It would seem that you would benefit more from reading pasts posts than contributing yourself for the moment. Hint hint...

Edited by tajmiester, 26 January 2004 - 10:03 PM.

[The_Djinn]

Guy's,

Just to throw my 2p's worth in here. I know a lot of you are very advanced but at the end of the day people have to start somewhere and sitting throwing abuse or sarcastic remarks is not going to help.
The forum is about sharing knowledge and helping and I would rather see new commers even if they are raw begginers, being given some sound advice like Richard has offered with regards to litrature and about reading articles and info on the forum.
If newbies are made to feel unwelcome then they will go off elsewhere for there information and we all know what crap there is to be found on the web that could lead to people doing themselves or others serious injury hence I would rather see them getting information from places like this where safety is a key factor and the information available is accurate.

At the end of the day it is also up to the new people to listen to advice given and learn to search the forum for relevant information prior to asking questions.
They also need to realise the inherant dangers involved as well as issues related to mixing of certain compounds.. all of which are on the forum.

"Just thought to add that there are several users with web sites that also have good instructions on some of the basics that can also help begginers."

Mark

Edited by The_Djinn, 26 January 2004 - 10:13 PM.

[adamw]

I agree with that, and posted a similar stance. However it went a bit too far, and well, the outcome is obvious.

[BurlHorse]

Djinn and Richard,

Thank you both for remembering your roots, where you started and where we must all always be willing to go back to when a newbie comes along. If Pyro was something that was taught in school, there would'nt be any reason for any of those "too cool for school" comments that this user/newbie/beginner/whatever, has found himself exposed to in the course of a few days of obviously barely teenager but wants to be one of us posts.

I have two young sons, 5 and 6 as well as a 23 yo daughter all of whom learned the benefits of a Torch (Propane, not a flashlight) Versus a match to light a fuse from ME, their father. This lad may not be so fortunate. I give my Pyro info out freely, as You all Know by now, I stress Safety and VOLUNTEER for safety functions on a regular basis for all our club shoots, to keep things safe, basically to keep those younger folks from becoming statistics. So for those out there who decided to PUSH this young person towards the Anarchists Cookbook and all the other rubbish out on the internet instead of welcoming him and gently guiding him towards the "Right" way to do things, to them I have two things to say, once here and further down in this post, why don't those who shunned this kid try remembering all your "Accidents/experiments" that "Almost" or should have became fatal disasters.......and every last one of us knows they did/have had them. The funny thing is, as soon as you become unwilling to remember your roots, you too become a canidate for a Darwin award and hence a statistic, and then it becomes "what did YOU do to further the SAFE research and betterment of our hobby."? (Nothing)

It would seem to me that since Pyrotechnia seems to be soooooo taboo over there, you would want as many folks in your battalion of "Success stories" as possible to further your cause of legal hobby pyrotechnics. It only takes one disaster to sway the borderline officials from approving or denouncing a request for recognition as a valid and safe passtime/hobby. I feel strongly that, we as a group of people who have varying levels of knowledge, share that knowledge which is correct and relatively safe with those that come in search of same. Lest they go to lesser experienced sources and DIE from disinformation or flat out BS direction from some worn out copy of the Anarchist cookbook or worse the guys who did'nt have the time to talk to and guide that person. So to those who Sarcastically directed this youngster to further reading without suggesting the proper reading, post to me not, Skip my posts, make not my formula's for you are not deservant of my shared knowledge.

Richard and Djinn, my hats off to you for properly addressing this person with the respect he/anyone deserves and proper direction towards valid reading material, matter not his level of social skills or lack thereof in the ways of pyrotechnics.

If you feel the need to warn me or the need to ban me for this post, do so, I am an adult and I feel my view on this is correct as I have always shared safe and sane practices with EVERYONE, Newbies included.

Regards, Stay Green,

Bear

[Pazza]

Hey,

By reading your posts, i have got the impression that you havent told your parents about your newfound interest. If you have, then this is a damn good thing. If my dad and I didn't work on our pyro projects together, I would probably be one of those idiots who make stuff from the anarchists cookbook. Basically, having a parent involved means that you have someone who has a little more knowledge and common sense than a 14 year old, also, I would not have been able to get all the chems that I require anyway so basically i'd be making devices out of dangerous stuff like KMn04.

If you're not going to buy any literature, you'll need to spend a lot of time on the internet researching, and always read the safety sections on websites! A lot of websites contain good safety sections, and they may seem boring but you need to read them and follow them, as even when working with non sensitive comps because there's always something that can go wrong. I started researching pyro somewhere around the start of 2003, when i was 14, and didnt really make any serious projects (Charcoal and Ti fountains + Chrysanthemum and antimony white starmines) until new years 2004.

I probably wouldnt have been able to do any of it as well as I did without the wealth of information contained within this forum (The search link at the top of this page is a great place to start.)

I'm also hoping that you have some knowledge in chemistry. Taking chemistry classes at school is a great way to improve your understanding of pyrotechnics. Physics can also be helpful in some cases as well.

Pyrotechnics is not about making b*mbs, it is an art, and fire is your media. There was a guy who recently let off a b*mb which contained 25 kgs of ammonium nitrate based comp in a paddock, and now he is in prison, so basically dont go doing stupid stuff and you will be OK. If you're planning on making some pyro, talk about it with the many experienced pyros in this forum.

Above all, I hope that you will be able to succeed in this very rewarding hobby!

[RegimentalPyro]

OK here is my 2pworth....Here is the order I would recommend for learning pyro.

Start with making touch paper
Buy/Loan some books [See above - All good choices]
Move onto Black powder - Spend some time getting this right
Move onto black match, and then quickmatch
Make a fountain, unchoked and then choked
Move onto drivers
Now Saxons / Wheels
Now Rockets
Now research some comps that are not based on BlackPowder
Shells
Girandolas
etc [what have I missed]

Bottom line = Crawl first, then walk, then run.

Also, make sure the safety precautions are so deeply rutted into your neural pathways that to do things any other way just *feels* wrong.

Finally - Have fun!

Edited by RegimentalPyro, 27 January 2004 - 02:50 PM.

[pyrotechnist]

Hi I would sagest get a nice book cause there is a lot of junk on the internet about terrorism and killing people with explosive compassions you wouldn't want to read i read a little bit and felt sick of what people fort. The books I would sagest is

Fireworks: The Art, Science, and Technique By Dr. Takeo Shimizu ho has a PhD on fireworks and then moving to.

Understanding and Making Exploding Fireworks bye Jon donner.

Then to fireworks principles and practice bye Rev Ronald Lancaster.

These are very good books in my opinion you need to experiment with different books and bye the one you like the most I haven?t got the other books listed above but i like these ones I haven?t got tom perigns book and that. I started pyro 2/3 years ago i am now much more experienced with pyrotechnics than before bye reading books and finding good web sites like the people on this form have good web sites on making fireworks I am currently making one and am going to put a safety manual on it and safety on each device that i used on the web site. WARNING THERE IS A LOT OF CRAP ON THE INTERNET THAT YOU DO NOT WHANT TO GO BY ON UNLESS YOU WHANT DISASTER AND BE KILLED!
And never mix a chlorate with sulphur e.g. potassium chlorate and sulphur do not mix they are extremely sensitive and very vulnerable to spontaneous ignition. Never try these chemicals the chemistry you are doing in you school is very basic getting hydrogen from a metal and setting it a light this is not the same for fireworks fireworks are very dangerous and can kill you and others to surrounding you. You need to get in some deep safety learning man before you make fireworks and read books and do research on web sites. Like regimentalpyro said to try them basic compounds then to go on fuse manufacture and the devises.

This is what I sagest

Learn safety
bye some good books
start bye making chuch paper
then making black powder
to making black match & quick match but quick match can jump and scip throu in the paper tube so go well away before every lighting these like in matts video on quick match jumping take a look at that.
make a fountain with or without chuck
then making drivers
now Saxons or wheels
then make a very small basic roman candle
now make some small rockets then progress to larger ones
then do lots of research on compassions
now start making basic cylindrical shells then to round star shells
girandoles but I think this is to advanced for you to do you need to be experienced with pyro.

And never make flash powder this is for an experienced pyrotechnist to make and if a beginner tries it could be a big mager disaster never try until you have a big knowledge base.

You can fined lots of good info on this forum by going in the mane page and going on the discussions or pyrotechnics or effects page any of them would do you. The colours you mentioned or not correct the chemicals in them to make red you need strontium carbonate/chloride or nitrate green barium chloride/carbonate/nitrate

I will just give you them to for now I will not say the yellow orange blue violate pink purple cause they are harder to make than these to which are still hard as well. But if think these will do you for now and I can't be bovered putting these chemicals on to lol.

And chemicals are very costly affective to and I dowt your school teacher will let you have some mine won't and they won't stock in barium or strontium mine sho doesn?t .

Anyway be safe and have a great time.

Ps Richard were you bye them books from my book Fireworks: The Art, Science, and Technique By Dr. Takeo Shimizu was ?64.

Michael

Edited by pyrotechnist, 27 January 2004 - 05:12 PM.

[Phoenix]

watchthefireburn,

If you only buy one book on pyrotechnics, make it "Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics," by Tom Peregrin. It is written for absolute beginners, and if you read it and make sure you understand it before following the instructions contained in it you are unlikely to get hurt. Many other pyro books will require at least some pyro knowledge beforehand, and attempting the projects contained in them without this could be dangerous.

I got my copy from Skylighter.

This costs about ?45 (assuming it is to be shipped to the UK), but it is the best way a beginner in pyro could spend ?45.

"Understanding and Making Exploding Fireworks" by John Donner does detail some safety, but is almost entirely devoted to making salutes, not very good devices for a beginner to attempt. I would not recommend this as a first book myself.

I do not own either of the other books mentioned by Pyrotechnist, so cannot comment on their suitability for a beginner, but I believe that it would be hard to better IPP as an introductory text.

Several websites I have found useful are:

Dan Williams's Site - a useful resource once you have got to grips with the basics of pyrotechnics.

Wouter Visser's Page - As above. The General Safety section of this site is good.

Passfire is an excellent advanced resource, but is not free and a beginner would be far better spending money on IPP.

You would also do well to read the previous posts on this forum. As you will know if you have been here for any length of time, there are some very knowledgeable people here. If you come across any terms you are not familiar with, they may be somewhere in Tom Smith's Glossary or the rec.pyrotechnics Archive. Beware, however, that the latter is a public discussion forum and anyone can post there. Therefore a lot of what you see may be incorrect. Posts by the regulars are among the most reliable. Lloyd Sponenburgh, Mike Swisher, Tom Perigrin, Bill Nelson, Donald Haarmann, Old Dog and Harry Conover spring to mind as being some of the most reliable. However, even these are not necessarily infallible.

If anyone thinks I've missed anything or anyone, please add it. PS, watchthefireburn, I am really sorry for my little swipe at you. I was only joking and didn't mean anything by it.

PS Pyrotechist, you can make a green flame with boric acid. In stars it it is much harder than just using barium componds, which is are also usually cheaper, but it is standard to use boric acid for colouring alcohol flames.

Edited by Phoenix, 09 February 2004 - 08:00 PM.

[tajmiester]

Hi,

I think I should apologise for some of my sarcastic coments, too much blackadder in one night I guess .

Let me explain my stance on the subject. As a fellow, though perhaps older teenager I feel that the reputation of my age group is often let down by those that don't take the time to educate themselves probably. There are many accurate, safety conscious websites (for the financially impaired), other than the likes of the anarchist cookbook many of which have been written by members of this forum that I feel should be read. I agree completely with Jon's plan, but feel that some people would benefit from trying steps 1 and 2 before joining this forum and trying to skip ahead. Over the past couple of years this forum has become a huge source of information, and it just seems like an insult to have someone come here and expect everything to be given to them on a plate.

Admittedly everyone has to start somewhere but I just think that that place should be the beginning, not half way through.

Tris

[adamw]

The User 'watchthefireburn' has been removed due to comments made in another part of the forum; notably stating 'being turned into a human flamethrower was fun'. This individual was clearly either too immature to be part of the community, or insane. Or both. Attempts were made to explain this to him, but it seems some people dont take advice.

We screen members to make sure they fit in with the serious nature of the forum, and this member did not comply.

Also, I, like all members from the forum, know where I came from - how I started out and got where I am now. I do not expect anyone with the attitude portrayed by that person to get anywhere much in this hobby/industry.

That is all I have to say on the matter.