153 replies to this topic

[Barnsley-Bill]

cheers mark' I have the box section for the main spine and once I've cut and drilled it I can start to build it when i find the t slot frames.
I had a nice email off McMaster Carr when I emailed them about the trouble i had looking on there website' and it said

Due to the complexity of U.S. export regulations, McMaster-Carr accepts international orders only from our established customers. This decision also applies to orders shipping within the United States, because it is based on the final destination of the items. We will not provide a quotation or accept your orders.



Aaron

I only wanted to look on there website but seeing as there loaded and don't need my money I'll look else were lol.
I've been playing about with the Mach3 CNC Control Software but its way too much for what we need imo.

[barnsley-mark]

Bill, rs components will have the stuff, not the cheapest but have a look
Rswww.com and use t slot as search term.

[Xtreme Pyro]

I've been following this topic for quite some time, and am very glad to see it has picked up again! I was starting to wonder if you guys had given up, keep at it!

I have done what you all are trying to accomplish, and can say it's not as complicated as it seems. I started this project about 8 months ago, and just recently finished it 2 months ago. I wrote my software in C++, which I recommend since it's not only a very efficient language, but there are plenty of stepper libraries to help get you going (though I recommend you write your own, for something like this). I also eliminated the need for a laptop, by using a Micro controller for all my functions. I have an LCD screen with 4 buttons to change the shell size, and to start / stop the paste run. I've nearly perfected the wrapping pattern on my machine for shells up to 8 inches.

I will be more than happy to answer questions anyone may have.

cheers mark' I have the box section for the main spine and once I've cut and drilled it I can start to build it when i find the t slot frames.
I had a nice email off McMaster Carr when I emailed them about the trouble i had looking on there website' and it said

Due to the complexity of U.S. export regulations, McMaster-Carr accepts international orders only from our established customers. This decision also applies to orders shipping within the United States, because it is based on the final destination of the items. We will not provide a quotation or accept your orders.



Aaron

I only wanted to look on there website but seeing as there loaded and don't need my money I'll look else were lol.
I've been playing about with the Mach3 CNC Control Software but its way too much for what we need imo.

Bill, i'm not sure where you can order t-slotted extrusion in the UK, but you can order the same exact rollers elsewhere for fairly cheap, I don't reside in the UK but if you check http://www.fairlaneproducts.com you may be able to find a distributor near you.

Tape Application Roller: http://www.fairlanep...sp?menuID=RBRD4

Finned Rollers For Motors: http://www.fairlanep...asp?menuID=RBRF

Edited by Xtreme Pyro, 07 November 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[Barnsley-Bill]

Bill, rs components will have the stuff, not the cheapest but have a look
Rswww.com and use t slot as search term.

I checked them Mark' they dont do the size I'm after but I've found a firm in Nottingham that dose the size I want but the min order is 5.5mtr £70 = vat .

Xtreme Pyro

thanks for the links I'll email them about ordering some

[PyroSam]

Drive wheels . . . black neoprene, 35 durometer?

Tape application wheel . . . diameter, material, durometer?

[Barnsley-Bill]

I think the 35 durometer would be fine for what we want' I've sent them an email as I couldnt work out the shipping on the fixturewoks website..

I have some extruded T slot coming this week so I should be able to start making the frame work.

[Xtreme Pyro]

Drive wheels . . . black neoprene, 35 durometer?

Tape application wheel . . . diameter, material, durometer?

For my tape applicator roller i'm using the 20 durometer wheel in black neoprene 1.94" wide. It applies the tape nicely, and sort of forms to the curvature of the shell. It is the four inch diameter wheel.

As far as the drive rollers go, I recommend the 60 durometer. Since they are finned they will still flex quite a bit, 35 would be too soft and possibly screw up your pasting run since the diameter of the drive rollers would be affected from compression 35 durometer is surprisingly soft (think softer than a pencil eraser, even softer since they are finned). The diameter of the drive rollers depends on the motors you use, I use 2" drive rollers on mine to get the full amount of torque out of my steppers for shells up to 8".

Edited by Xtreme Pyro, 12 November 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[PyroSam]

I was thinking the WASPs use a 35 durometer roller because in Ned's manual one of the pics of the drive rollers show a 35 stamped on the end.

Also, i need to dig through my notes but I'm sure I recall someone telling me the tape application wheel was a 20 durometer and I've noted the WASP Mini uses a smaller tape applicator wheel that is not a durasoft. The 4" durasoft wheel is available in 20 durometer but the 2-1/2" is not, it's lowest is 35, so my thoughts were they moved away from the durasoft wheel in favor of being able to use a 20 durometer wheel.

Peret, any thoughts here?

WASP owners, can you look on the end of your drive wheels and see if there's any make/model numbers on them and pm me?

[PyroSam]

Perusing the WASP patent it appears it originally was designed to use a 30 durometer drive roller:

"The support rollers are preferably made from 30 durometer silicon rubber or another preferably elastomeric material that provides the necessary traction to cause the shell, 20, to rotate when the support rollers are rotated."

Of course it also suggests exposed metal studs may be used too and that didn't make it into the production units:

"Additionally, one or more of the rollers may be embedded with exposed metal studs to increase traction."

It looks like in the pic in the manual that there is a model number cast into the rubber of the drive wheel but I can't clean the pic up enough to read it, hopefully someone will be able to check an actual unit for us.

[PyroSam]

Just looking at the ball transfers used in the bearing blocks tonight.

It appears the most common size uses a 25mm (1") ball and the overall housing dimensions are 50mm (2") x 70mm (2.75").
I noticed in the Spyder Automated Shell Paster video on YouTube



that the builder had slightly angled the ball transfers. Playing with my CAD program it appears that may not be a bad idea. At 2" center to center with 1" balls and no angle on the mounting block small shells ride very close to the housing and will probably hit it. Large shells ride more in the preferred middle range but truthfully I think most will be doing smaller rather larger shells (at least I'm imagining that will be the case for me).

A 22-1/2 degree angle on each half of the mount makes the smaller shells as well as the larger ones ride in a more appropriate position . It simply looks like a much better idea.

If you could find ball transfers with smaller housing diameters that could be placed closer together this problem would be alleviated (indeed I think this is what's done on the WASPs) but smaller diameter transfers are harder to find, especially if you want stainless.

It would be interesting to know the measurements on the WASP ball transfers and how far apart center to center they are mounted.

Also, the few complaints I've ran across for the WASPs is that the bearings like to rust. The manufacturer admits that the cheaper carbon steel bearings are used for economy and recommends drying them and wiping them down with WD-40 or other light oil between uses. Since once is saving a ton by building their own I think using stainless bearings is probably a good idea. They make plastic/teflon bearings too and I wonder how they would hold up.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

[barnsley-mark]

It makes sense to angle the ball housings anyway - they rotate very well with a perpendicular load, but easily bind with radial loads, larger shells would have the weight to force rotation with some angular load, small shells may slide over the balls.

[Barnsley-Bill]

I think the same too, a good idea mate.
My stepper motors came today and my mates cutting the plates for them with his laser cutter' once the T slot comes sometime this week I hope I'll make a start at builing one.
These are the motors I've gone with
http://www.cnc4you.c...gory&path=20_95

and I've been in touch through email to the stepper bee company and he said' I would go with a 5v supply which is capable of at least 20A to enable you to drive both
motors simultaneously in full step mode if necessary. You will probably find
that a 5v supply will not need any current limit resistors especially if the
motor does not spend too much time stationary.

I may have some info on the software side of things in a day or two .

[PyroSam]

OK, after doing some research it seems the rollers are 35 durometer rollers. I ordered a pair. If I've made a mistake it's a cheap enough one and easily fixed, but I'm 99% certain they are 35s.

[Xtreme Pyro]

OK, after doing some research it seems the rollers are 35 durometer rollers. I ordered a pair. If I've made a mistake it's a cheap enough one and easily fixed, but I'm 99% certain they are 35s.

I can confirm they are 35 durometer as well, I asked one of my buddies who owns an actual WASP. Also a typo earlier, I meant to say my tape application roller is actually 20 durometer. If you ordered that in 35 durometer too, it will also work fine.

As for the ball transfers needing to be at an angle, when I built mine I didn't put the block at an angle, even with smaller shells they roll just fine without hitting the housing as long as the shell is centered between the drive rollers (One radius apart). Here's a picture:


http://img62.imagesh...15/photozft.jpg


The other bearing block looks the same, only it is spring loaded.

EDIT: I will second what pyrosam said about the rollers rusting, I pasted a bunch of shells one night and forgot to WD-40 the rollers and they tarnished up over night i'll be looking to replace them with nylon rollers.

Edited by Xtreme Pyro, 13 November 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[PyroSam]

OK, a WASP owner took a pic for us. We're still verifying measurements but it looks like they are 1-1/4" balls and one side of the mounting flange has been cut off to allow them to be mounted closer together. It looks like they are on 1-1/2" centers.

Playing with the CAD that looks very good. Even very small shells like 1-1/2" festival balls would still hit at about 1/3 of the ball face and large 8" shells would hit right on the top of the ball face.

Extreme - if you hit the more options button in the lower right you'll get a full editor and then you can click on the image button and enter the url for your image and it'll display the pic in the post rather than a link.