823 replies to this topic

[BigG]

There was an arguement the other day or week about the best way to mix flash powder or something and i said that diapering is the safest and that running it through a screen could cause it to have a static charge. You then said there is no problem with running it though a screen as its done by the pound in industry (in any case 1lb is about 450grams of flash powder - just shows it can be done safely even with huge amounts like that, these are obviously trained professionals but still it shows that it can be done if you know what your doing).

Please find the place where I said that screening flash is safe. Please find the place where I said this is the way it is done in the industry. I would like to be reminded. Please also note that in your post you mentioned pounds.... that's more then one pound.

minalth - its not about how loud a bang i get as i live in a built up area which isn't suitable. Its just about me experimenting with flash powders and seeing how they react because it interests me - thats all.

Flash powder, like i said before, isn't going to suddenly ignite and blow your hand off for no reason - just like black powder. But some idiot will be smoking a cig near the black powder and next thing....BOOM, just like there will be some idiot who starts grinding flash powder in a mortar and pestle and the same thing happens....no hand left. Its all about the person who is working with the flash and how sensible you are. Treat it with respect, KNOW what your doing and remember that its very sensitive to handle and you will be ok.

I am just amazed with this last paragraph. You know something. Better not react. I'll just ask beginners to have ONLY paper around flash. No, don't use ink cartridges to store flash, and oh - please don't think flash and BP is in the same category of ignitibility, and remember all the accidents of flash ignition of Italian shell builders when a wooden mallet was used to compact stars around the flash?

In short, no guess work here. If you have to use flash, research all written material (not forums, books) about working with flash with don't do any guess work. Ink cartridges... Really...

[Pyromaster2003]

Well pound or pounds either way you will still be dead if it is accidentaly ignited next to you

Appologies i must have gone mad as iv searched the forums 3 times and you didn't say that it was mixed through screens in the industry - my mistake!

Don't really understand this

''I am just amazed with this last paragraph. You know something. Better not react. I'll just ask beginners to have ONLY paper around flash. No, don't use ink cartridges to store flash, and oh - please don't think flash and BP is in the same category of ignitibility, and remember all the accidents of flash ignition of Italian shell builders when a wooden mallet was used to compact stars around the flash?''

I never told anyone to store flash powder in ink cartridges!? Or say that FP and BP have the same ignitibility, just said flash is LIKE black powder in that it will not self ignite for no reason, not the standard flash at least obviously some will if you add different chemicals.

So after i have sprayed the cartridges with static spay you STILL see a problem with using them? What could possibly be soo dangerous about pouring a couple of mg of flash into a thin, soft, static-free casing?

[italteen3]

Pyromaster I would like to know what safety equipment and techniques you use when making and using FP?

I've done tests with small 1g-3g salutes on inanimate objects to see the potential of an accident. A 3g salute placed in an old shoe DEMOLISHED it. I have it on tape somewhere just for this purpose. The shoe went atleast 20 feet up and there was no more top/tongue to the shoe. Be careful. I would not like to find out how a hand or face would look after an accident as the shoe was pretty tough.

Pyromaster from your posts you seem to have a decent amount of experience in using FP but not a safe concept of on how. What I would suggest doing, since you probably would not listen to us and not use FP at all, is purchasing some books from Skylighter. Ofca's is a must have and John Donner's will get you the basics. Please be very careful man.

Stay Green.

Edited by italteen3, 08 July 2006 - 04:40 AM.

[Pyromaster2003]

What do you mean by saying i don't have a safe concept of on how?

PPE for making flash is basically hard/thick leather gloves, whole face visor, cotton clothing, anti-static spray when needed, sheet of craft paper/newspaper for diapering a gram of sensitive flash or 5 grams of standard or not so sensitive comps, i always light the device on the ground and not in hand, the flash is mixed outside and away from other pyro....think thats it but just woke up lol.

Im not picking a fight but why do you think i don't work safely with flash powder? Just that everyone is firing at me saying im not doing this right, im not doing that right, im putting my self in horrible danger!? But i have never on any occasion came close to having an accident with flash, whereas with BP i think i have due to the fact that its at another level of danger compared to flash so i didn't respect it enough.

Flash scares me because i have seen, like others who have used flash, what power it has and that if something went wrong there no way of getting a mangled, torn up hand stiched back on!

[adamw]

Right, this is wearing thin now. There are some lessons to be learned in this topic, but it's gone on long enough.

[italteen3]

What do you mean by saying i don't have a safe concept of on how?

PPE for making flash is basically hard/thick leather gloves, whole face visor, cotton clothing, anti-static spray when needed, sheet of craft paper/newspaper for diapering a gram of sensitive flash or 5 grams of standard or not so sensitive comps, i always light the device on the ground and not in hand, the flash is mixed outside and away from other pyro....think thats it but just woke up lol.

Im not picking a fight but why do you think i don't work safely with flash powder? Just that everyone is firing at me saying im not doing this right, im not doing that right, im putting my self in horrible danger!? But i have never on any occasion came close to having an accident with flash, whereas with BP i think i have due to the fact that its at another level of danger compared to flash so i didn't respect it enough.

Flash scares me because i have seen, like others who have used flash, what power it has and that if something went wrong there no way of getting a mangled, torn up hand stiched back on!

It was never mentioned is why I said I think you did not work safely with FP. I was not picking a fight either just looking out for someone else. You seem to have the basic safety knowledge which is essential in working with FP, but there are other things to be done when working with FP. Like I mentioned in my earlier post go to skylighter.com and purchase Ofca's book on work safely with Flash it will really teach you some safe methods of working with Flash from someone who has been doing so for longer then I have been alive.

Stay Green everyone.

[adamw]

Ahem... everybody - stop the bitching.

[Give_me_APCP]

I didn't want to start a new thread with flash so I'm asking the question here...

Will 1% copper oxide in a typical 70/30 mix yield a bright blue flash as it does in propellant? What about strontium nitrate for pinkish and others etc?

My assumption is that the colors will still be yielded even in the short amount of flash time, my main concern is why I haven't heard of any colors ever being used in a flash mix. Is it simply undesireable for the most part?

[Ritual33]

Thanks for that portfire!

Drew

[portfire]

no prob drew. as for the "colored flash" Give_me_APCP becuase fuels like mg/al/ti are used they would wash out anyother color . you can get colored flash comps but there not as powerfull as conventional powders

Edited by portfire, 15 July 2006 - 11:03 AM.

[karlfoxman]

Normaly you would use magnesium powder and an oxidizer. For example,

Strontium Nitrate 5
Magnesium powder 5

Will give red flash, be aware that magnesium powder is very reactive so great caution is used. This applies to all flash compositions.

Blue flash is hard to make, I have seen it once before.

[italteen3]

Normaly you would use magnesium powder and an oxidizer. For example,

Strontium Nitrate 5
Magnesium powder 5

Will give red flash, be aware that magnesium powder is very reactive so great caution is used. This applies to all flash compositions.

Blue flash is hard to make, I have seen it once before.

How was your Beraq shell?

[Creepin_pyro]

Will 1% copper oxide in a typical 70/30 mix yield a bright blue flash as it does in propellant? What about strontium nitrate for pinkish and others etc?

I doubt 70/30 could be coloured blue - the Aluminium raises the temp too high. Barium/Strontium Nitrate will make a fairly decent coloured flash with Magnesium - the degn ones work well. Have a look at the PFP database for coloured flash formulas. A nice blue flash can be made by using an AP blue lance composition. Something like:

Ammonium Perchlorate 70
Copper Oxide 30
Red Gum/Shellac 15

will burn extremely fast as a loose powder, with a deep blue flame.

[Give_me_APCP]

I doubt 70/30 could be coloured blue - the Aluminium raises the temp too high. Barium/Strontium Nitrate will make a fairly decent coloured flash with Magnesium - the degn ones work well. Have a look at the PFP database for coloured flash formulas. A nice blue flash can be made by using an AP blue lance composition. Something like:

Ammonium Perchlorate 70
Copper Oxide 30
Red Gum/Shellac 15

will burn extremely fast as a loose powder, with a deep blue flame.

Interesting, I never realized a flash mix existed like the above. I just so happen to have quite a but of AP and CuO as I make a good amount of rocket propellant, however my AP is 400 mic and I doubt it would work without being milled a lot finer. I know how much 5-12% Al content can change a rocket flame towards white, I mainly didn't know if a hint of blue could be added by somethign like the CuO in a standard mix. But yeah, now that I think about it, 30% Al is just too much heat to combat with something like I stated for much of an effect.

Just curious about this as I haven't seen it done before, not too sure if I will ever get around to trying it.

[Give_me_APCP]

This thread has grown quite long after time...

If I may imply for the better, it seems that the flash thread is much less useful in this "giant thread" format. If everything pertaining to flash is here, it is quite frustrating for one to scan the total 25 pages to possibly come across the detail they seek. Almost makes me want to say we need a mini flash forum, but I realize that too may be overkill. Just my observation of mass threads...no harm intended.

Anyways, I have a question pertaining to the storage of unmixed powders.

Somewhere I read about plastic bags generating static into the chems which reside in them. At a convention I believe zirconium was ignited by means of simply shaking its bag to generate static. Is it possible for a perchlorate to ignite when mixed with a metal soley due to stored static? Can the static energy be properly released before mixing somehow?

I notice that suppliers ship all chems in plastic bags, or plastic containers. Should I be switching to some sort of paper containers for flash mixes (which of coarse wouldn't seal as well)?

I actually found a website that recommends mixing all flash in plastic zip locks sprayed with static guard. I would never do this as it sounds crazy from the talk (I do use static guard though), but it just amazes me about the span of outlooks on flash itself. Has anyone on the forum ever had a mixing accident due to static? What about friction/impact instances?

I have heard some say it is very safe when little friction is applied (the same website actually states that they could not ignite flash by a hammer or by means of a high-voltage coil arc right into a flash pile!), while others claim the stuff may even spontaneously combust and is extremely sensitive with mild friction.

I am very afraid of the friction aspect, and I always wet any area of a container with glue upon applying friction between two paper surfaces around the flash. The static generated is where I'm confused, can static be generated by the powders themselves, even inside a paper container?

Any occurances from forum members would be appreciated in learning how sensitive this stuff is.

I know it is dangerous regardless and will never be looked at as safe in any instance, but I'd like to get an understanding of just how predictable it can be made. I have moved on to much more stable compositions, but do mix small batches of flash for rocket reports thus am still concerned.