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#526 banga

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 12:54 AM

Firstly, permanganate flash powders. There are several formulas using potassium permanganate, which I suspect is why people do occasionally enquire as to where this oxidiser can be got. They should be left well alone. All flash powders are sensitive, and there is a risk that they may be ignited by friction, static, impact etc, but the safer ones, eg 70:30 and buffered nitrate flash, will not spontaneously ignite (or are at least very unlikely to). Permanganate compositions will, and often do. They will also ignite from the slightest friction or impact. Furthermore, the safer flash powders will not burn you skin or give you manganese poisoning on contact, like potassium permanganate does. There is no need to use permanganate flash powders, much safer formulas exist.

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In TIF 10, Ofca advises that chlorate flash powders not be used, and I personally have not, and will not use them, as the two flash powders I will give later have been plenty sufficient for my needs. However, other people have used them successfully, and whilst they are probably not really safe, they are a hell of a lot safer than permanganate powders, and are of similar power.

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I rarely use flash, as for me BP is much cheaper and easier, and faster burning, and less likely to go off without being told to. The only time I use flash is when I want a bright flash, eg for bottle rocket headers. On the some occasions when I do need the stuff, I use the following, very common formula:

Potassium Nitrate.........50
Sulphur.......................30
Aluminium...................20
Boric Acid (Optional)....+1

I haven't got around to getting any boric acid yet, but I have so far I have mixed the stuff in small quantities and used it within a couple of days. If you were going to have it hanging around it would be a good idea to include the buffer.

The aluminium I use is home made, probably flake shape, and passing 200 mesh. The potassium nitrate and sulphur are ball milled for several hours. The ingredients are diapered together. The resulting powder seems to burn a little slower than good meal BP, but brightly. Under good confinement, it produces a similar report. Using a real flash aluminium would no doubt produce a much punchier powder, but as I said, I use this to produce a brighter flash than BP, not a louder bang, so that is not a problem.

This powder is said to be a little more forgiving than perchlorate based powders, as the tendency for accidental ignition is lower and the critical mass is higher. However, this should be treated as useful increase in safety, not an invitation to be rough with the stuff. The same precautions should apply as with any other flash powder.

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Another way to achieve a more pronounced flash than with straight BP is to add some aluminium powder to meal BP, and use that in the same way as flash. The amount is not critical, so for small quantities (eg enough for one ?? rocket) you can just judge the amounts by eye (once you know what they look like). A good start point would be:

Black Powder....90
Aluminium........10
Boric Acid.........+1

This is rather like a nitrate flash as above, so again, the same applies for the boric acid. The flash is not as bright as with the above formula, but more so than with BP. This is in fact my most commonly used "Flash Powder" as it uses relatively little aluminium, and is very easy to prepare in small amounts. This formula resembles a fountain formula, but since flash aluminium rather than flitter is used, it will be more sensitive so should be handled with care.

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Finally, for ground salutes, why not use BP? Personally, I mostly use them during the day, when the flash is not that noticeable anyway. If you are going to use a salute in daylight, you can just save yourself the trouble and expense of flash powder by using good ol' BP, or (less preferably) H3. If you do have access to dark aluminium, so actually could make a flash powder that is significantly faster (louder) than BP, then there might be an incentive there, but a bigger BP salute could produce the same effect, and even small BP salutes are probably plenty loud enough. For occasions where you want a flash, then the BP and Al formula is, IMHO, probably the safest and easiest to use.


Pheonix,

I tried your KNO3 FP mix, as I only have access to kNO3 and it didn't really work, I added charcoal to the mix and it worked but very poor. I also tried your BP AL mix, that worked quite nicely, bright but doesn't burn as fast as BP on it's own.

When I mixed them, I mixed them dry. Should I have wet them and riced them? Is there a better mix with KNO3 I can use, perhaps a better method? Basically I'd like a nice FP mix. I don't have access to perchlorates, chlorates, etc...

#527 seymour

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:15 AM

Banga, please describe your Aluminium so we can help you, are you confident you are ready for flash powder?


Not trying to put you off pyro, but check out these sobering images as a reminder that one should not push the limits too far with energetic materials.

http://members.shaw....nsequences.html
The monkey leaped off it's sunny perch and flew off into the night sky.

#528 banga

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:43 AM

Banga, please describe your Aluminium so we can help you, are you confident you are ready for flash powder?


Not trying to put you off pyro, but check out these sobering images as a reminder that one should not push the limits too far with energetic materials.

http://members.shaw....nsequences.html


Hey mate, yeah I'm cautious but ready, safety wise, I have boric acid to buffer the FP KNO3 mix, I have a face shield welding gloves, fire retardant clothing, and very small quantities are a good start. As long as I get the right info in relation to the mix, handling and capabilities I should be fine.

No chlorates though don't want to use them nor do I have access to them, I would use perchlorate but these products are not available to me.

#529 banga

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:45 AM

Banga, please describe your Aluminium so we can help you, are you confident you are ready for flash powder?


Not trying to put you off pyro, but check out these sobering images as a reminder that one should not push the limits too far with energetic materials.

http://members.shaw....nsequences.html



Sorry forgot, yeah the aluminum I have is very very fine, I don't know how many mesh it is but it's used for cold cast casing, it's not dark.

#530 seymour

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 02:51 AM

Aluminium for that purpose is typically about 70 micron, and a spherical Shape. The Aluminium I use for flash is jagged flakes and is 7 micron wide. Your Aluminium will probably be good for glitter and silver streamer stars, but is not suitable for flash. What is considered fine for ordinary use does not necessarily translate to being fine in pyro use.

May I ask you what you want Flash for?? I apologize if I may come across as interrogating you. Good luck!
The monkey leaped off it's sunny perch and flew off into the night sky.

#531 banga

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:36 AM

Aluminium for that purpose is typically about 70 micron, and a spherical Shape. The Aluminium I use for flash is jagged flakes and is 7 micron wide. Your Aluminium will probably be good for glitter and silver streamer stars, but is not suitable for flash. What is considered fine for ordinary use does not necessarily translate to being fine in pyro use.

May I ask you what you want Flash for?? I apologize if I may come across as interrogating you. Good luck!


Fair enough, so the powder I have is only useful in those applications describe other than FP, which is still great. There are a few reasons I wish to make FP, basically I would like a louder report for effect, colour being the other reason, thirdly, an FP burst charge in the firework shell would scatter the stars etc further than BP.

#532 banga

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 02:32 AM

Aluminium for that purpose is typically about 70 micron, and a spherical Shape. The Aluminium I use for flash is jagged flakes and is 7 micron wide. Your Aluminium will probably be good for glitter and silver streamer stars, but is not suitable for flash. What is considered fine for ordinary use does not necessarily translate to being fine in pyro use.

May I ask you what you want Flash for?? I apologize if I may come across as interrogating you. Good luck!


Seymour, a question... The 70 micron Al I have has made some fantastic glitter powder but I was wondering if were to dampen a small amount of Al with acetone and add say red gum or dextrin as a binder and then rice it, once dry would it be closer to Al flake? Or would I just have a different glitter effect?

#533 seymour

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 10:23 AM

Banga,

I am not entirely sure what you are meaning, but as far as I am aware, the only way of reducing your Aluminium to a flash capable powder is either stamp milling, or ball milling, neither of which would suit your situation well at all, as they create a lot of noise! Different additives may make your Aluminium into glitter stars (a trail filled with many flashes of light) or non glittering streamer stars (where the trails are made up of sparks only and there is no twinkling effect).

If you live in the US or Europe getting fine flake should be pretty easy, however with a little twisting and turning you should be able to get it to all places.
The monkey leaped off it's sunny perch and flew off into the night sky.

#534 banga

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 10:45 AM

Banga,

I am not entirely sure what you are meaning, but as far as I am aware, the only way of reducing your Aluminium to a flash capable powder is either stamp milling, or ball milling, neither of which would suit your situation well at all, as they create a lot of noise! Different additives may make your Aluminium into glitter stars (a trail filled with many flashes of light) or non glittering streamer stars (where the trails are made up of sparks only and there is no twinkling effect).

If you live in the US or Europe getting fine flake should be pretty easy, however with a little twisting and turning you should be able to get it to all places.


Well, what you said previously is my Al is too fine and it should be like flakes to make flash but now your saying it has to be fine... Now I'm confused. The Al I have is finer than talcum powder. So which is it, fine Al or flake Al for flash..?

#535 Pretty green flames

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 11:04 AM

You need FINE FLAKE ALUMINIUM POWDER
Sub 10 micron flake aluminium is the best for flash, other, bigger sizes of flake aluminium also work but they make something known as slow flash and are among other used in streamer compositions.

#536 seymour

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 12:31 PM

Banga,

Perhaps you are getting confused with the difference between mesh and microns. The higher the number of mesh, the finer a powder, while it is the other way round with microns. Mesh is how many of your particles will line up to make an inch, while microns are how many thousandths of a millimetre an individual particle is. My 7 micron flake Aluminium is about ten times finer than your powder, and when you take into consideration the shape, jagged flakes, it is much more reactive than that even.

Imagine your Aluminium as large pieces of firewood, if they were flake powder, but the same size, they would be kindling. My flash capable Aluminium is match sticks. Talcum powder may seem very fine, but in fireworks, it really is not, especially when it comes to flash powder.

To clarify things a bit more, each sheet of Aluminium in my finest powder for flash is only a few times wider than a wave of visible light.
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#537 portfire

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Posted 13 July 2008 - 01:34 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is'nt the 2micron dark Al powders available more suited to flash powders? I have a small quantity of 8micron bright flake, and dark Al. On experimenting the dark Al is far superior then the flake, but, if I'm not mistaken the german dark Al is in flake form?, this would be why it's so reactive. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited by portfire, 13 July 2008 - 01:35 PM.

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#538 banga

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 02:58 AM

Banga,

Perhaps you are getting confused with the difference between mesh and microns. The higher the number of mesh, the finer a powder, while it is the other way round with microns. Mesh is how many of your particles will line up to make an inch, while microns are how many thousandths of a millimetre an individual particle is. My 7 micron flake Aluminium is about ten times finer than your powder, and when you take into consideration the shape, jagged flakes, it is much more reactive than that even.

Imagine your Aluminium as large pieces of firewood, if they were flake powder, but the same size, they would be kindling. My flash capable Aluminium is match sticks. Talcum powder may seem very fine, but in fireworks, it really is not, especially when it comes to flash powder.

To clarify things a bit more, each sheet of Aluminium in my finest powder for flash is only a few times wider than a wave of visible light.


Fair enough, thanks mate.

#539 bigtonyicu

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:09 AM

Banga,

My 7 micron flake Aluminium is about ten times finer than your powder,


A fast correction; but a huge one, that's not 10 times finer, 10 times per dimension (in other words 10x10x10) your aluminum is 1000 times finer

and also 1000 the surface area; so 1000 the reaction rate (not really because thermodynamic laws slow that down significantly, realistically it's something in the order of 600x the reaction rate).



Correct me if I'm wrong, but is'nt the 2micron dark Al powders available more suited to flash powders? I have a small quantity of 8micron bright flake, and dark Al. On experimenting the dark Al is far superior then the flake, but, if I'm not mistaken the german dark Al is in flake form?, this would be why it's so reactive. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.


Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but off the top of my head your Bright Al is usual spherical or speroidial. The reason it's so Bright is because the surface is perfectly smooth due the technique use to produce it, it's normally produced by atomizing molten aluminum in an inert atmosphere (think of a highly modified paint gun for painting cars, bad example I know but the principal is the same), as it exits the nozzle the surface tension pull each drop into a smooth sphere which acts like a nice convex mirror reflecting light in every direction in other word "Bright", or more accurately "Reflective". Dark aluminum on the other hand is formed by a mechanical process (impacting) the first several thousand impacts thins and forge harden thin sheets of aluminum (foil), the harden aluminum then cracks from subsequent impacts resulting in jagged rough edges that aren't smooth and hence do not reflect light, industrially it's normally produced with hammer mill or a stamp mill in an inert atmosphere (a ball mill will produce very fine particles but the running time is very long).

I know it’s a little off topic but I though it good info that should be on here somewhere.

Although Canada it one of the world’s leading producers of aluminum (aluminium for those in Canada) it’s next to impossible to get our hand on anything bellow 150 micron here. So my winter project (and for all of you that are lucky enough never to have lives through a -40C Canadian winter, WE NEED WINTER PROJECTS TO STAY SAIN) is a small Hammer mill with an argon atmosphere (I’ll keep you posted on that as it starts taking shape)

#540 banga

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Posted 16 July 2008 - 03:49 AM

A fast correction; but a huge one, that's not 10 times finer, 10 times per dimension (in other words 10x10x10) your aluminum is 1000 times finer

and also 1000 the surface area; so 1000 the reaction rate (not really because thermodynamic laws slow that down significantly, realistically it's something in the order of 600x the reaction rate).





Someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but off the top of my head your Bright Al is usual spherical or speroidial. The reason it's so Bright is because the surface is perfectly smooth due the technique use to produce it, it's normally produced by atomizing molten aluminum in an inert atmosphere (think of a highly modified paint gun for painting cars, bad example I know but the principal is the same), as it exits the nozzle the surface tension pull each drop into a smooth sphere which acts like a nice convex mirror reflecting light in every direction in other word "Bright", or more accurately "Reflective". Dark aluminum on the other hand is formed by a mechanical process (impacting) the first several thousand impacts thins and forge harden thin sheets of aluminum (foil), the harden aluminum then cracks from subsequent impacts resulting in jagged rough edges that aren't smooth and hence do not reflect light, industrially it's normally produced with hammer mill or a stamp mill in an inert atmosphere (a ball mill will produce very fine particles but the running time is very long).

I know it’s a little off topic but I though it good info that should be on here somewhere.

Although Canada it one of the world’s leading producers of aluminum (aluminium for those in Canada) it’s next to impossible to get our hand on anything bellow 150 micron here. So my winter project (and for all of you that are lucky enough never to have lives through a -40C Canadian winter, WE NEED WINTER PROJECTS TO STAY SAIN) is a small Hammer mill with an argon atmosphere (I’ll keep you posted on that as it starts taking shape)


bigtonyicu, you know your shit, Mg S flash... What ratio and how fine does the Mg have to be, I have ribbon which I was going to file would that be sufficient? Also could boric acid be used as a buffer like the KNO3 Al S mix or is this not safe to use at all?




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