I'm going to try barium sulfate myself one day, but for barium the chlorate is the colour donor, so it's just out of curiosity.
Isn't German Dark (the real stuff) almost as expensive as magnesium everywhere?
Anyone experimented with metal carbonate based colours?
Started by
pyrotechnist
, Jun 24 2010 12:27 AM
102 replies to this topic
#31
Potassium chlorate
-
- General Public Members
-
- 596 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 27 June 2010 - 08:18 PM
"This salt, formerly called hyperoxymuriate of potassa, is
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
used for sundry preparations, and especially for experimental
fire-works."
Dr. James Cutbush
#32
pyrotechnist
-
- General Public Members
-
- 1,126 posts
firework making is my aim, setting off is my game
Posted 27 June 2010 - 09:16 PM
I heard you can use barium sulphate with magnesium and a chlorine donor and get pretty good results or barium carbonate. It can be though you dont have to coat the stuff, then again if you bind with parlon it shouldn't be to much of a problem. Adding a small amount of perc say 10% or so seems to burn up any un-used fuel as well as helping with the steadiness of the burn rate. Sulphates seem to be cleaner burning though. So next on my list, barium sulphate, magnesium sulphate (for white) and sodium sulphate, for the red I am sticking to the carbonate.
fireworks is my aim setting of is the game
#33
CCH Concepts
-
- General Public Members
-
- 597 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:13 PM
whats about calcium sulfate, does calcium emit a pinky/red color?
#34
pyrotechnist
-
- General Public Members
-
- 1,126 posts
firework making is my aim, setting off is my game
Posted 27 June 2010 - 11:44 PM
Bright orange to a bit of redy orange, lovely orange when you tune it in right. Sodium sulphate should produce a bright yellow, magnesium I would assume to produce a white like the metal itself as it produces no other colour.
fireworks is my aim setting of is the game
#35
CCH Concepts
-
- General Public Members
-
- 597 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:01 AM
whats about potassium sulfate, I'm assuming as purplish color? I'm just going through what available on ebay. just thinking if these are a color/oxidizer, add parlon as chlorine donor/binder plus a metal fuel. cost wise this should be alot cheaper, with only the metal fuel ever being hard to get old of, but with many forum members selling.
#36
pyrotechnist
-
- General Public Members
-
- 1,126 posts
firework making is my aim, setting off is my game
Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:08 AM
I assume it would or be white, I heard potassium burns more in the UV range or something thought you can achieve a pale lilac colour, try it and see 
. I have gotten really nice reds, yellows, oranges and even pink and magenta up to now using these basic chemicals. Calcium sulphate is very nice though as an orange producer and oxidizer burning much cleaner than the carbonate. When my sodium sulphate arrives I will tell you the results of that, also need barium sulphate.
. I have gotten really nice reds, yellows, oranges and even pink and magenta up to now using these basic chemicals. Calcium sulphate is very nice though as an orange producer and oxidizer burning much cleaner than the carbonate. When my sodium sulphate arrives I will tell you the results of that, also need barium sulphate.
fireworks is my aim setting of is the game
#38
pyrotechnist
-
- General Public Members
-
- 1,126 posts
firework making is my aim, setting off is my game
Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:25 PM
Give it a try , I am sure it should work and at least you have the added benefit of it not being toxic.
, I am sure it should work and at least you have the added benefit of it not being toxic.
fireworks is my aim setting of is the game
#39
CCH Concepts
-
- General Public Members
-
- 597 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:57 PM
my problem is i have moved recently and now don't have my workshop, so I'm mostly theoretical at the moment.
#40
CCH Concepts
-
- General Public Members
-
- 597 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:16 PM
we have been discussing the problem of these salts burning to hot, what about Ammonium sulfate
http://en.wikipedia....mmonium_sulfate
"It has also been used in flame retardant compositions acting much like Diammonium phosphate. As a flame retardant, it lowers the combustion temperature of the material, decreases maximum weight loss rates, and causes an increase in the production of residue or char"
on another note this study sounds interesting
http://www.springerl...7n2624362w3106/
would be good to be able to read the full paper.
http://en.wikipedia....mmonium_sulfate
"It has also been used in flame retardant compositions acting much like Diammonium phosphate. As a flame retardant, it lowers the combustion temperature of the material, decreases maximum weight loss rates, and causes an increase in the production of residue or char"
on another note this study sounds interesting
http://www.springerl...7n2624362w3106/
would be good to be able to read the full paper.
Edited by CCH Concepts, 28 June 2010 - 03:41 PM.
#41
vaslop2005
-
- General Public Members
-
- 77 posts
Member
Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:00 PM
Now that is a good idea! has anyone else noticed that sodium bicarbonate burns with a much larger flame than all the regular carbonates? I'm sure this is due to the hydrogen, as in a normal flame that hydrogen would be burnt to water, but with magnesium it is reduced back to hydrogen, and should cool the flame (and increase the flame envelope) so maybe, either using ammonium carbonate/sulfate, will give a wide range of colours, and hopefully blues (but maybe not), when the appropriate additives are present.
if anyone has access to these chemicals, please, I am really intrigued
if anyone has access to these chemicals, please, I am really intrigued
#42
digger
-
- UKPS Members
-
- 1,961 posts
Pyro Forum Top Trump!
Posted 28 June 2010 - 10:45 PM
I would guess garden center for ammonium sulphate. Ammonium carbonate is used in baking.
Phew that was close.
#43
CCH Concepts
-
- General Public Members
-
- 597 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:09 PM
again its sold on ebay. all Ive done is go on ebay type sulphate's and googled the ones i have found on ebay to see if they will be of any use, same for carbonates.
#44
pyrotechnist
-
- General Public Members
-
- 1,126 posts
firework making is my aim, setting off is my game
Posted 29 June 2010 - 10:48 AM
Just hot magnesium sulphate through the door, 3kg of it to make some nice bright white stars . This blue theory is interesting, will have to try it unless someone beats me to it , could hexamine but added to cool the flame a bit?
. This blue theory is interesting, will have to try it unless someone beats me to it , could hexamine but added to cool the flame a bit?
fireworks is my aim setting of is the game
#45
CCH Concepts
-
- General Public Members
-
- 597 posts
Pyro Forum Regular
Posted 29 June 2010 - 11:02 AM
I'm wondering if we could go the organic route all together, do we really need a metal fuel. they would be a bitch to light, but I'm thinking some of the lower temp fuels like lactose or maybe red gum.
maybe a very low metal content if there to hard to get going.
end of the day from what i have been reading carbonates and sulphate's are oxidizers in the same way as nitrates etc, but the main difference comes in because most sulfates and carbonates are hydrated, some pento-hydrate. you need to evaporate off the water before the reaction gets going this makes the initiation energy much higher.
maybe a very low metal content if there to hard to get going.
end of the day from what i have been reading carbonates and sulphate's are oxidizers in the same way as nitrates etc, but the main difference comes in because most sulfates and carbonates are hydrated, some pento-hydrate. you need to evaporate off the water before the reaction gets going this makes the initiation energy much higher.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
