63 replies to this topic

[Arthur Brown]

he store depends on what you wish to put in there, in terms of hazard category transport category and desireability to mal-users.

A tonne of retail packed fireworks needs less storage than a kilo of a terrorist usable HE. There would be little point in using any planning loopholes (sub 30M^2 ) as the explosive store will almost certainly attract the strongest planning criteria.

MSER (which is available for free download! ) gives separation distances It does seem that you have an adequate plot. BUT you will need to consider several stores possibly an embanked one for 1.1 items and maybe lesser stores for lesser HT items.

Prepare some serious discussion material for the local trading standards people and the HSE who will have an interest if you are to have a factory.

A shipping container is (safety wise) considered adequate for a reasonable load of fireworks 1.4 or 1.3 BUT extra locking is required on big stores or 1.2/1.1 stores. You have to secure the container against forced entry and removal attempt, like bolt to the floor or piles into the ground.

[digger]

he store depends on what you wish to put in there, in terms of hazard category transport category and desireability to mal-users.

A tonne of retail packed fireworks needs less storage than a kilo of a terrorist usable HE. There would be little point in using any planning loopholes (sub 30M^2 ) as the explosive store will almost certainly attract the strongest planning criteria.

MSER (which is available for free download! ) gives separation distances It does seem that you have an adequate plot. BUT you will need to consider several stores possibly an embanked one for 1.1 items and maybe lesser stores for lesser HT items.

Prepare some serious discussion material for the local trading standards people and the HSE who will have an interest if you are to have a factory.

A shipping container is (safety wise) considered adequate for a reasonable load of fireworks 1.4 or 1.3 BUT extra locking is required on big stores or 1.2/1.1 stores. You have to secure the container against forced entry and removal attempt, like bolt to the floor or piles into the ground.

Thanks for the reply

The idea is to start small so to speak, with storage for NEQ 30kg or less of any category to avoid the need for separate stores at this point (this of course may change in the future).

I intend to get involved with a local re-enactment society initially, hence there will probably be a need to get an explosives certificate to acquire and keep "gun powders" along with what ever is required for transport by road etc.

So even after registering, I will just be "experimenting" at the sub 100g level on pyrotechnic formula with less worry about "what if I have some left before making another batch".

I had a brief telephone conversation with the HSE today. They advised at this stage I should deal with the local police force regarding registration and explosive certs etc, then when/if I want to take it to the next level to get in contact with them (they gave me the name of the local police officer to get in contact with).

Good point about the bolting the container to the ground, that had not crossed my mind. Although it would require some interesting equipment to remove the container from the proposed location (as it will take it to get it there). However it should not be to much trouble to drive a few piles in (and if I have to go to those lengths drive a few more in for other possible stores).

[Arthur Brown]

The standards for store security are minimal for small amounts of retail fireworks and pretty mega for 1.1 HE and primaries. Plan for some expansion.

[pyrotechnist]

Is this the form that has been mentioned earlier needed to register a small explosives store?
http://www.met.polic...iries/MSER1.pdf

If I am wrong were do I get the form from?

[pyrotrev]

Yup, that looks like the form, but you'll only be getting it from the Met. if you're in London. Otherwise contact your local trading standards or sometimes Fire brigade - it differs around the country.

[pyrotechnist]

It says though on this form that you should only obtain a registration form if you are not going to be storing black powder, smokeless powder or any other explosive that requires a certificate. So if I registered a small store for the storage of loose compositions does this mean I cannot store black powder etc?

[pyrotrev]

Strictly I think you're right there. Other than the <100g exemption, you shouldn't have BP in your possession without the certificate, joining your local re-enactment society might be one way of getting one. However even with small batches for research it's better to have them in a proper safe store, if anything did go wrong it would stand you in good stead, and could make the consequences much better for a lot of people: the MSER storage rules are sensible and not overly onerous - WE NEED TO ACT RESPONSIBLY!!. The idea of keeping compositions, fuse etc. never mind complete fireworks in your cellar or similar is frightening, if lots of people are doing it, sooner or later there will be an accident that is at the least very embarrassing and will draw unwanted attention to the activities of everyone on this forum. So get yourself a store!

[pyrotechnist]

Strictly I think you're right there. Other than the <100g exemption, you shouldn't have BP in your possession without the certificate, joining your local re-enactment society might be one way of getting one. However even with small batches for research it's better to have them in a proper safe store, if anything did go wrong it would stand you in good stead, and could make the consequences much better for a lot of people: the MSER storage rules are sensible and not overly onerous - WE NEED TO ACT RESPONSIBLY!!. The idea of keeping compositions, fuse etc. never mind complete fireworks in your cellar or similar is frightening, if lots of people are doing it, sooner or later there will be an accident that is at the least very embarrassing and will draw unwanted attention to the activities of everyone on this forum. So get yourself a store!

What would you suggest as the best suitable building for a store to store black powder and other loose compositions? I know you need to build a storage box made of 18mm plywood now to store black powder.

[Arthur Brown]

For matters this important. the ONLY appropriate advice can come from approved sources

MSER Which is downloadable free from the ODPM sitewill help. Then take advice from your local trading standards officer and perhaps HSE. Otherwise unless you are talking to a licensed keeper( within the meaning of the 1895 act and the 2005 regs and COER ) You may be putting to much value on hearsay that may not be 100% correct.

MSER has some guidance notes that offer all the exceptions and all the requirements for various quantities of BP.

[starseeker]

What would you suggest as the best suitable building for a store to store black powder and other loose compositions? I know you need to build a storage box made of 18mm plywood now to store black powder.

For amounts of 6kg or less of B.P a storage box of 18mm,with external hinges,is the recommended choice.
Each container of B.p must have its own separate section within your storage box ,and it is recomended to seal the lid with a intumescent strip and chain the box to the floor etc ,with the box being padlocked.
regards,

[Arthur Brown]

Yes there is a big exemption to the regs for the storage of BP in reasonable quantities. BUT please, you need to have COER approval to acquire BP and to keep it, it is a 1.1 class explosive even though it is very weak compared with other 1.1 High Explosives.

Please approach your local police specialist officer for COER approval to acquire and keep BP, then store it as they request. Yes there is one storage case that is 18mm ply with a hinged lid and intumescent seal. BUT having the box comes after having approval to acquire and keep the BP.

[pyrotechnist]

Got the forms for a COER 1 now so will fill them out and hopefully will get a certificate otherwise I am doomed .

Edited by pyrotechnist, 26 June 2008 - 09:23 AM.

[starseeker]

Yes there is a big exemption to the regs for the storage of BP in reasonable quantities. BUT please, you need to have COER approval to acquire BP and to keep it, it is a 1.1 class explosive even though it is very weak compared with other 1.1 High Explosives.

Please approach your local police specialist officer for COER approval to acquire and keep BP, then store it as they request. Yes there is one storage case that is 18mm ply with a hinged lid and intumescent seal. BUT having the box comes after having approval to acquire and keep the BP.

Quite right Arthur,
you must first fill out the forms and have a house visit from the police exsplosive officer who will determin there and then whether you can have a aquire and keep certificate.

[dr thrust]

any incite as to what the officer would be looking for? to grant the certificate, so you could in theory prepare for the visit, instead of wait and hope!

[pyrotechnist]

Ok the forms have been sent off now so I can only hope and pray I get it I told the truth about why I wanted a certificate indicating I wanted to obtain and store Black Powder to build CAT 3 and 4 garden fireworks so hopefully fingers crossed I will get one.

Also all seems to be going well with HSE on manufacturing CAT 3 and 4 pyrotechnics under the 100g exemption rule. They seem to be very supportive about it which is different to how I perceived they was going to be. If all goes well I will soon have a construction shed fully set up and a store . I have also made a series of log books recording what materials I am storing and what quantities to make sure I work under 5KG limit without needing to obtain a storage registration. The nice chap at fire service also sent over a few explosive category labels for my storage containers so all seems to be going well 'atm'.

Edited by pyrotechnist, 28 June 2008 - 01:10 PM.