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#16 BigG

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 12:34 PM

Originally posted by RegimentalPyro

Originally posted by Rhodri

1. Only mill KNO3. Never use a more 
    powerful oxidising agent.
2. Never mill colour comps.
3. Make sure you use LEAD or other non-
    sparking media.
4. Ensure the mill is away from the 
    house - a garage may be best (without
    car!)
5. Dampen the mixture - ensure that it's 
    damp at all times - approx. 8% water.

    This would mean that for 100g of 
    powder you'd add 8gs of water. Use a 
    plant spray - it makes for even 
    application.


Seems like good advice there Rhodri.

I'm getting the milling media from SUTLERS - The lead balls at the bottom of the linked page.

Few more questions tho.

1) How do I know when the comp is sufficiantly milled?
2) How would I separate the wet BP mix from the lead balls?
3) What would you recommend for the drying process.
4) What's a good amount of BP to mill at once. Does the amount of BP you are milling affect the milling time.


You know it is properly mixed and it?s unified in colour and easy flowing. Anything between 2 to 24 hours depend on the quality of the media and the size of your jars. Your next question suggests that you are making some sort of a mistake. The BP should not stick to your lead balls. This means one of two things:

1) You use too much water.
2) You wet the composition rather then mist it.

The proper way of wetting the mixture is by user a mister (like the one used to mist flowers). Don?t spray directly onto the mixture but above it and let it fall into the mixture. The mixture should not be wet but slightly observing moisture. That?s all.

Stay Green - BigG

#17 Rhodri

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 02:44 PM

Good advice from the Big man there!

:rolleyes:

#18 bernie

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 09:44 PM

What terrible thing happens if you don't mist your meal with water?

#19 BigG

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 10:15 PM

Originally posted by bernie briden
What terrible thing happens if you don't mist your meal with water?


Nothing really :) Misting help in two categories ? it allow potassium nitrate to better engulf itself around the other chemicals, and it also reduces the chances of fire as sparks are less likely to form under wet conditions. According the a few researches misting helps reduce the amount of time require to get good quality BP, but I admit I seen plenty of good quality BP that was made dry.

See it as friendly recommendation :)

BigG

#20 bernie

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 11:55 PM

I don't want to get into any kind of a debate. Opinions over which methodology is the best is not a thing that can be specifically determined if the variable of different milling machines, container size, media size, quality of ingredients etc are factored in to the mix. Your vague statement concerning mill times pinpoints this right on the money.

I honestly wonder if the addition of an amount of water is all that significant in the big scheme of things when it comes to making home brewed bp. I am certainly no expert by any stretch of the imagination. My curiousity has gotten the best of me I suppose. It's neither here nor there. If it works and it's safe, then go with it. It motivates me to babble on but not near enough to get me to go out and mill one of each and do a side by side. There's a good storm brewing and along with a hot cup of java is plenty entertainment for me this evening thankyou very much. :)

After looking back over all this......all he wanted to know was where to get a mill.:lol:

[Edited on 1-8-2003 by bernie briden]

#21 BigG

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 12:23 AM

Originally posted by bernie briden
I don't want to get into any kind of a debate. Opinions over which methodology is the best is not a thing that can be specifically determined if the variable of different milling machines, container size, media size, quality of ingredients etc are factored in to the mix. Your vague statement concerning mill times pinpoints this right on the money. 

I honestly wonder if the addition of an amount of water is all that significant in the big scheme of things when it comes to making home brewed bp. I am certainly no expert by any stretch of the imagination. My curiousity has gotten the best of me I suppose. It's neither here nor there. If it works and it's safe, then go with it. It motivates me to babble on but not near enough to get me to go out and mill one of each and do a side by side. There's a good storm brewing and along with a hot cup of java is plenty entertainment for me this evening thankyou very much. :)

After looking back over all this......all he wanted to know was where to get a mill.:lol:

[Edited on 1-8-2003 by bernie briden]


Bernie, there is no argument :) I never did advise anyone to add water or not ? I just pointed on how it should be done if you choose to do so.

Lloyds book actually done the research and say it?s recommended ? but just like I don?t think an amateur need the fastest charcoal for his BP, I also don?t think you need to employee the fastest method for ball milling.

BigG

#22 bernie

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 01:49 AM

Lets arm wrestle. ;)

No argument from on my end Big. Lloyd S. is the man.

I will disagree with you on the fastest method though. There's nothing worse than sitting there watching the mill go round and round. I painted one of those hypnotic spiral patterns on one end to help pass the time. While I'm sittin' there watching it go around I repeat to myself " I am one badass pirate ! Arrrrrr"

#23 PanMaster

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:28 PM

hey, wouldn't moisture in the air around the powder increase the chance of sparks? increases the conductivity of air does it not, but i still think the chance of sparks setting it off is neglibable, so i use glass balls
another reason powder sticks to the lead is because it isn't smooth
I have found that making it wet decreases the rate of milling as it sticks together in a big heap on the sides of the barrel inbetween the vanes

#24 Rhodri

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:36 PM

Insane pyrotechnics eh?

Can't get the link to get in to your site.

Is it hiding somewhere or has it been exploded into a million bits (pardon the pun :)?

#25 RegimentalPyro

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 02:47 PM

Originally posted by PanMaster
...i use glass balls....

Marbles as milling media? What a good idea! Does it work? I'd of thought that they'd wear down too quickly.

The reason I ask is that my order of lead balls from SUTLERS was not honoured as they have run out of stock with no more expected :( . Marbles would solve a lot of problems for me if they work.

#26 Rhodri

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 02:53 PM

You can get lead balls from any fishing / tackle shop. They aren't cheap but you can get good, non-sparking hard wearing lead balls there.

#27 bernie

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 10:17 PM

The whole marble thing makes me uneasy. Why throw a variable into the mix. Don't do it.

#28 PanMaster

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 02:52 PM

more variables == more fun

#29 Richard H

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 03:03 PM

I don't consider death as fun.

Marbles = ceramic, ceramic = risk of sparks, sparks = possible contender for a darwin award.

#30 BigG

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 01:48 PM

I thought he mentioned glass marbles rather then ceramic ones?

Glass media of any kind should not be used. Glass itself is not likely to produce sparks, but it introduces a whole new range of problems. The first is that glass fragments can intensify and magnify sun rays and light. There are at least half a dozen confirmed reports in the last century of this being a source of accident. The other problem is that glass/fibreglass dust seems to increase the sensitivity of mixtures ? a fact that is used in rare occasions to make mixture more reactive ? but is dangerous in ball milling. As for ceramic media ? Richard is right in warning about sparks. Most ceramic media DOES spark. There are a few manufacturers who make non-sparking media ? aiming mainly at the ball milling market. Those are used by industrial set-ups and are safe to use.

I remember an interesting article about testing for sparks on ceramic media by hitting then against each other in the dark :) Sound quite functional at the beginning ? but the experimenter used a device that throws them against each other at increasing speeds. He videoed the procedure in pitch darkness and then analysed the film for yellow dots of sparks ? but I guess most of us would not go the distance :)

As I already mentioned ? for amateurs in the UK the easiest option will be to buy a ? inch diameter brass rod and too cut it into an inch size fragments. It might cost quite a lot and require some work, but the media will last forever. A cheaper option is to buy a thin brass tube ? cut it into pieces and to melt lead into it. In that case the lead does not have to be reinforced with much antimony and the media will last long time. It is quite a lot of work.

Stay Green!

BigG




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