65 replies to this topic

[dr thrust]

I think all this thread has done is demonstrate the blase and cavalier attitude many members have toward pyro and its legal use. As for clarifying the law its pretty plain and simple, it is a criminal offence to manufacture a pyrotechnic article outside of a registed factory. What needs clarifying?

so who were you flogging meter lengths of visco to factories??? or the hobbyist

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

Not all, thankfully the worst stick to 'pyrotubes'! Yes and I have come a LONG way as a result.

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

so who were you flogging meter lengths of visco to factories??? or the hobbyist

It's not illegal to fuse fireworks together.....

[starseeker]

I think all this thread has done is demonstrate the blase and cavalier attitude many members have toward pyro and its legal use.

Further to the above post masterchief,do you not think that to commence fireing a dangerous sequence to a show,(masclelata)without checking that the site was clear,and when realising that people were inside the cage to continue with the fireing rather than call a immediate stop could be construed as a blase and cavalier attitude?

[Richard H]

I've just returned to read this thread. I will be posting a very long reply tomorrow. Not at all happy about some of the frankly woeful posts on here concerning the UKPS, not to mention incorrect assumptions about MSER. We are, as a matter of fact making very good progress with the HSE and other parties like the Home Office about clarification of what can be done under the current law. I don't recall you being on any of the MSER working groups Masterchief?

[Karl Mitchell-Shead]

Further to the above post masterchief,do you not think that to commence fireing a dangerous sequence to a show,(masclelata)without checking that the site was clear,and when realising that people were inside the cage to continue with the fireing rather than call a immediate stop could be construed as a blase and cavalier attitude?

Do you really want me to go into that one????!!!!!!!

[Spyrotechnics]

I don't recall you being on any of the MSER working groups Masterchief?

With respect Richard I'm not sure that excludes people from having an opinion??

Further to the above post masterchief,do you not think that to commence fireing a dangerous sequence to a show,(masclelata)without checking that the site was clear,and when realising that people were inside the cage to continue with the fireing rather than call a immediate stop could be construed as a blase and cavalier attitude?

Were you there?? I was, I won't go into detail as I don't see this as the right place to air dirty laundry, needless to say the circumstances were not quite as you'd like to portray them

[dr thrust]

hey, my post was just a friendly observation...

If the powers that be are happy with discussions of manufacturing 30x the UK legal limit then alls good

hello i see youve been a forum member since 03, full respect.
so you must of noticed the 46 page bp ball milling thread? nobodies grumbled about that before.
i want to be legal and so do all the other members here, i can tell by just reading the posts.
when i first joined the forum four years ago, the forum was "on fire" with home brew pyro people just couldnt make enough of the stuff ! , but now with the work of the ukps on are behalf and the hint of a chance to be legal, you'll notice there not been any posts/videos of work on here for a very long time, we are respecting the law and want to do the right thing , so if were not building we can at least talk about it?

[cooperman435]

After brief discussions the opinion is as I thought earlier with my TALK TO FRANK comment.

Talking about how someone WOULD make something or the processes involved (within limits) should be fine

ENCOURAGING someone to do ANYTHING illegal is not.

Its appropriate to advise when posting the legal implications or restrictions in practically carrying out those processes in the persons country of residence.


SO in a nutshell.............

Its fine IF in Pyrosailor99's country or legal situation, manufacturing 3kg of BP at one go to discuss it.
It would be against OUR rules in the UK to do so but you COULD discuss its mechanics (IE that if your jar was optimal at 3kg that that WOULD be the optimal weight to mill) but to do it or advise someone to actually do it practically would be wrong.

I don't see that anyone has said to do anything or advised/encouraged anyone else to do anything Illegal here so why don't we all CALM DOWN!

Lets get back to a nice friendly forum where we all love each other :-)

[Spyrotechnics]

I do appreciate the difficulties that the pyro hobbiest must encounter, I do think that the initial post by Mastercheif had the best of intentions and that things just spiralled..

[Richard H]

With respect Richard I'm not sure that excludes people from having an opinion??

I have no problem with people having an opinion, provided it is that - an opinion - a person's interpretation of the facts.

[Richard H]

I am replying directly to each point below.

That's what i don't get about UKPS, the societies aims are:

To clarify the laws relating to the manufacture and storage of explosives for our membership

Well it is illegal! So kind of contrary to UKPS's aims is it not?!

What is illegal? Reg 9 (2) (a) states what is currently legal. We are seeking to clarify this further with our lengthy proposal and talks between us, HSE, Home Office, and through direct discussion with heads of policy and inspectorate at Bootle.

You are missing my point entirely, this IS the UK. The society IS the UK Pyrotechnic Society.

Read the aims of the society roger, particularly this section:

The society is mainly concerned with the manufacture of fireworks. Historically in the UK, domestic manufacture has long been in decline with most production now carried out in the Far East. Despite this there is a thriving community of individuals whose interest and passion is the display and manufacture of fireworks and pyrotechnics.

In the UK, the manufacture and storage of explosives is highly regulated, and so the society’s priorities are to clarify the legal position of our members and provide guidance to our members on how they can go about safely and legally persuing their hobby.

Where is the clarity?

Firstly, these forums are not endorsed by the UKPS and unless stated, they do not represent the views of the UKPS or its members. This policy is clear. http://www.pyrosocie...nt-information/

You ask where the clarity is, as have the vast majority of our members. We have made the situation as clear as we possibly can - at the AGM our representative in the ELR process showed the steps we have taken, and what we believe to be a favourable outcome thanks to the work put in to date. We have done all we can and made our submissions to the HSE - the feedback is positive. We now wait to see the outcomes in the next phase of the review.

Your comments seem a little odd given you are yourself a UKPS member, and given further that you were in attendance at the AGM.

I'll bow out but I think you should all leave pyro to the professionals.

UKFR is a FAR better community and at least that forum is busy.

I don't find these comments particularly constructive. Having attended many UKPS events over the past several years, and knowing or at least met the majority of our members, I am in no doubt that we have an excellent community.

I think all this thread has done is demonstrate the blase and cavalier attitude many members have toward pyro and its legal use. As for clarifying the law its pretty plain and simple, it is a criminal offence to manufacture a pyrotechnic article outside of a registed factory. What needs clarifying?

Our dealings throughout the ELR process do not suggest this to be the case.

I don't agree with you there on the subject of attitudes. I have met many members who have a very healthy respect for pyrotechnics and experimentation. We frequently get requests from prospective members and organisations seeking advice on how to remain within the means of the law. You rightly suggest that it may be construed as unwise and unlawful to be discussing milling large quantities of black powder on a UK forum - and yes - I can see your argument. It does concern me that your own track record however is not particularly good. I can see why some here would feel there is a little irony in your comments.

[Spyrotechnics]

It does concern me that your own track record however is not particularly good. I can see why some here would feel there is a little irony in your comments.

Granted, on the other hand it could put him in the position to have a little experience of what happens when the authorities take an intrest in your activities

[Spyrotechnics]

It's a shame that certain forum members need to continue the "debate" via PM and seem incapable or unwilling to grasp the most simple of concepts....

Edited by Starsky72, 20 September 2011 - 01:15 PM.

[Creepin_pyro]

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Edited by Creepin_pyro, 08 October 2011 - 10:00 PM.