102 replies to this topic

[MDH]

No, the boric acid should always first be reacted to sodium borate then reacted with a soluble salt (strontium acetate, copper sulfate, etc). This was discussed in another thread extensively in pyrotechnic chemistry.

As I said before, don't stop at the borates - though reactive the borates have trouble igniting due to very high points of decomposition. If you know how to make aluminates, phosphates, stannates or many other metallic compounds, those can all be used as well.

[CCH Concepts]

im guessing any acid with a high oxygen content is a candidate to make an interesting salt. what about some of the organic acids, some of them have high oxygen contend?

[MDH]

im guessing any acid with a high oxygen content is a candidate to make an interesting salt. what about some of the organic acids, some of them have high oxygen contend?

Yes, but the fuel in them will compete for the oxygen, and that will slow the reaction down drastically. I wouldn't recommend it.

[CCH Concepts]

mdh could that be a way of lowering the temp of the reaction for blues?

[MDH]

Yes. It already is. Most blues are organic, and use organic fuels alone with a less stable oxidizer. We're discussing more stable oxidants here with much stronger reducers (magnesium, potentially sulfur in conjunction with metals that it doesn't immediately react with).

[CCH Concepts]

i meant using an organic acid to creat the salt. so and organic acid instead of sulphuric acid for instance.

[CCH Concepts]

i just tried Mg/SrCO3

i was quite impressed, i did it very roughly using a 50:50 mix and it was almost comparable to valine red. when i added parlon i think i added to much because it washed the color out a bit, but i was binding with parlon and acetone and i ran out of time and tested it before it was dry.

but i can see promise. when i get a chance i will make some proper stars and video them.

[pyrotechnist]

MgAl works well also but it still needs a 10% boost with Perc to help burn the crap up left behind and smooth the burn rate out.

[CCH Concepts]

Are there no organics that have similar reactivity to an alkile metal? There's alot of reactive chemicals out there, is there not a group that can react exothermically with CO2 or SO2?

[pyrotechnist]

I am wondering the same thing. I am going to try everything I have got and see. Sulphur seems interesting when reacting to create sulphides etc but doubt that could be useful for a base.

[CCH Concepts]

I guess what we need is something that will burn at around 400 degrees rather than 2000 like Mg. But reactive enough to reduce the SO2 or CO2. A problem I can see is will this organic be more unstable and less safe the the perchlorate/chlorate we are replacing.

Something I was speaking to pyrotechnist about was peroxydicarbonate's they apparently will combust with organic fuels, question is can you get Sr, Ba salts etc

From what I gather they are synthesised by reacting the carbonate with H2O2.

[MDH]

The percarbonates do indeed. The reason we don't use percarbonates and other similar compounds is their instability, which often results in them decomposing on contact with water and forming new compounds with that instead.

[CCH Concepts]

would there be anyway of this working, say bond with parlon or NC.

would a percarbonate react with acetone.

[MDH]

The percarbonates simply aren't compatible enough for pyrotechnic use.

Perhaps we should explore other compounds that are more stable.

[CCH Concepts]

shame, they seems promising, with very high oxygen content, but paybe alot of the salts with this high content will be inheritly unstable.